200 amps and Gas, No 3ph Setup?

[mimosatexas]

Like the title says, looking to get some feedback on how someone would equip a shop space that does have 200 amps of electrical and does have natural gas, but does not have 3 phase.  The space also does not have an overhead door, so everything would have to fit through a double door or roughly 6" wide.

Specifically looking for info regarding compressor and press combinations (including flash options), and dryer suggestions.  Budget is a big concern, space is a bit of one, but would love to have ideas on a setup that will last through substantial growth vs just being a stop-gap of sorts.

From talking to a few shops and looking around on the forums, its looking like the Workhorse Sabre is a good option as the compressor requirements are low and for what you get it's pretty cheap (A/C heads), plus the flashbacks are single phase and lower amperage that traditional quartz flashes (though I know they are slow).  As much as I would love to go M&R, from what I've read, presses like the sportsman may start pushing the electrical requirements a bit and without 3 phase for faster flashes the benefits of the faster press wouldnt really be taken advantage of most of the time.  I'm also just not that familiar with the ROQ offerings.

It seems like the only real dryer options would be the Interchange MD-8 or Mini Sprint.

Any thoughts?

[ZooCity]

How many presses do you need in there?

[mimosatexas]

Just 1 auto, but would also have/need 2 flashes, compressor, dryer, the 5k MH, couple clamshells, etc.

I know there are lots of ways to make it work, but a lot of them seem far from an optimal use of funds.  Want to steer clear of the Volts, tiny diamondbacks, workhorse cutlass/freedom, etc.

[merchmonster]

sent you a DM with my phone #. i run the machines you are considering. happy to chat about it with you

[Biverson]

Just 1 auto, but would also have/need 2 flashes, compressor, dryer, the 5k MH, couple clamshells, etc.

I know there are lots of ways to make it work, but a lot of them seem far from an optimal use of funds.  Want to steer clear of the Volts, tiny diamondbacks, workhorse cutlass/freedom, etc.

Any reason you're not considering a Volt? That would eliminate a need for Compressor and Chiller and save about 65+ Amps. One downside is having to re-learn flood bar and squeegee pressure versus just dialing in PSi. I had (and was happy to) to go with a Volt as I was limited to 100A, 1-phase. I run 8/7 Volt M, 1 Rapid Wave Flash, and Vastex Econored II. I can't run things full bore but my space gets me by right now. Most all their presses/equipment come 3 or 1 phase. My guess is comparable model with flashes would be cheaper than the Sabre with Compressor/Chiller.

[mimosatexas]

Im sure the volt works for some people and makes them money, but Anatol has a reputation I would like to avoid, and the production numbers and overall capabilities of the machine just dont compare to other options which aren't too much more costly.  Budget is a big factor, but so is not having to upgrade and switch machine brands/types in the near future if growth stays steady.  From what I have read the Saber is slower than the m&r's, but it seems to be a tier above the presses I listed. No offense of course, just what I have read.

[LoneWolf2]

Is getting 3-phase not an option?
If it is, you may want to see what the cost is, as you could recoup the install of it relatively quickly running at 3ph versus 1-phase with that equipment load, plus have plenty more room to grow on the 200-amp panel.

[mimosatexas]

I wish it was an option, but it just isnt at the moment.  Not to get into too many details, but the space itself is sort of temporary, while the idea of this thread is to get equipment which fits into the limitations of the temporary space without being also being temporary or a poor value when a better space is in the cards.  Don't want to buy stuff now only to have to upgrade it all in a year or so when there is the opportunity to get a setup which is capable of handling growth in the longer term.

[Nation03]

I'm on 100 amps and everything is single phase right now. 3 phase is in the building but the electrician said it needs a lot of work for it to be functional, so I opted to go single phase.

I run a 7.5hp compressor, chiller, workhorse freedom, flashback, ranar curestar 6000 dryer. I have manual equipment also, but it's not usually running at the same time as the auto. I think 200 amps on single phase will do fine. If you end up getting a gas dryer I think you'll be more than okay. Even if you run a small/midsize electric dryer you should be okay.

Also, not to stir the pot, but the Sabre price quotes I got were way better than the Volt quotes. Especially given that the Sabre has a 20" print length compared to the 16" length on the Volt I was quoted at. I don't want to come off bias, as I've never run either of these presses, but to me the Sabre is probably the most press for the money. If I could fit one in my shop, I probably would, but I don't think it's in the cards.

[mimosatexas]

Is anyone running the quartz flashes from M&R (Red Chili) on single phase vs 3 phase?  Obviously the electric costs more due to the higher draw, but any other downsides?

For the Sabre, are there comparable flashes available if the speed of the flashbacks becomes a bottleneck?

[discounttshirts]

We were a similar setup as this on 200 amp service - when i added the auto (javelin) with 2 flashbacks we upgraded to 400 amp service- all still single phase

we run
Javelin- 2 flashbacks- with Speedair 7.5 hp/ compressor and chiller
Vastex 54" electric dryer
10/10 manual press with vastes 18x24 flash
central heat/air
Amergraph 150 exposure
Embroidery machines (4 head/ 2 head/ single head)
Stahls Dual Air Fusion Press
Hotronix 16x20 Heat Press
Roland vp-540

we dont have any power issues at allo- most expensive bill I evey got was $600/ month is usually around $350/ mo-- our entire building is 2800 sq ft.

[T Shirt Farmer]

Is anyone running the quartz flashes from M&R (Red Chili) on single phase vs 3 phase?  Obviously the electric costs more due to the higher draw, but any other downsides?

For the Sabre, are there comparable flashes available if the speed of the flashbacks becomes a bottleneck?

Does single phase really consume more electricity, I would think if a unit took 60 amps on a single leg then it would consume 20 amps each for 3 legs ??

[ebscreen]

Does single phase really consume more electricity, I would think if a unit took 60 amps on a single leg then it would consume 20 amps each for 3 legs ??

Correct, a watt is a watt, doesn't matter how you get there. 3 phase motors are more efficient though.

[Nation03]

Is anyone running the quartz flashes from M&R (Red Chili) on single phase vs 3 phase?  Obviously the electric costs more due to the higher draw, but any other downsides?

For the Sabre, are there comparable flashes available if the speed of the flashbacks becomes a bottleneck?

Yeah workhorse has standard quartz flashes if you don't want to run the flashbacks which should help you print a little faster. If you use the flashback as a stand alone flash and flash in table up mode, it's still surprisingly quick.

[IntegrityShirts]

I run a 10/12 Trident AC/servo, 1 quartz flash, 1 IR flash, 5hp compressor, old precision gas dryer converted with single phase motor on 200amp service.

The quartz flash is the biggest hog. Can't remember what size breaker it has, think it's 65-70amp. It's not an Anatol flash, think it's flash technologies out of CA, so no direct comparison available.

I WANT another quartz flash but I do worry about that rare event when two quartz flashes light off at the exact moment that the compressor kicks on. It would probably be fine as it's not long enough of an initial load to blow the main breaker. But just a thought/worry.