Keeping a roller frame 100% square?

[Doug S]

Ok guys, I've finally managed to keep my M3 UL frames flat after tightening.  I've watched the video, read the instructions but no matter what after I snug the bolts from the bottom right and work around, then tighten to a torque of 25 the bottom right pulls away from the stop approximately a 1/8 to 3/16".  It was worse when I used a higher torque. 

I'm stretching 280/34 mesh to around 25 newtons, so I figured I don't need as much torque.  Tell me if I'm wrong or what I can do to stop the pull away.  I'm all ears.  Thanks.

[ffokazak]

We used to try everything to get it perfect while stretching... But once you learn how to flatten a frame with the magnesium wrench, it literally takes 2 seconds to make it perfectly flat.

So while we have a system that ensures we are doing everything to get it as flat as possible, a quick knock with the wrench flattens them every time.

[screenxpress]

I copied something that Northland posted.  I made a table that clamps down on the frames, uses the towers with holes (crescent wrenches and rod pins) to hold everything while tightening.  Stays flat.  I have the magnesium wrench but never use it.

[Doug S]

I appreciate that.  My problem is square.  The bottom right leaves the corner just a little while tightening. 

[screenxpress]

This is what zak was describing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYSfw0H-0No

For me, was too much going on.  Holding this down, tightening that; all at the same time.  So I made the table.

[screenprintguy]

This is what zak was describing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYSfw0H-0No

For me, was too much going on.  Holding this down, tightening that; all at the same time.  So I made the table.

THis is the way to get it!! But, put that newman table up for sale and get an accelerator from Shur-Loc, it's the easiest way to go!!! Have a tube that accidentally sticks, your newman table will easily over pull on the opposite side costing you an expensive panel or at the very least, the time and pain of a hand cut panel and the time softening corners ect. The shurloc is problem free on that front, not to mention, just straight forward. I sold both my tables and have an accelerator and turn table coming.

[screenxpress]

My table was created using Northland's design which I believe mimics the Shur-lock accelerator table.  I've been using it for several years now. 

I did a refresher on the accelerator -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNCAIncyJHI

and I believe my table does just about the same thing except I don't use the Shur-lock panels (although I could).  I'm pretty comfortable using raw mesh and corner softening, along with pocketing the cost savings both for the table and the panels.

But thanks and hope it all works out for you.

Not to mention, I don't think my DIY table would bring much on the open market. 

[Colin]

We use the Newman Roller master - Using the compressed air to pull the frames up to tension.

It will actually do nothing to alleviate screen racking - high/low corners.  You still need to manipulate the frame to keep it flat/square...

[Doug S]

That accelerator looks like the way to go.  I've had this rollermaster for about 5 years and have used it 4 or 5 times.  I just need to brush up or like Mike said just sell it and get the accelerator.

[screenprintguy]

My table was created using Northland's design which I believe mimics the Shur-lock accelerator table.  I've been using it for several years now. 

I did a refresher on the accelerator -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNCAIncyJHI

and I believe my table does just about the same thing except I don't use the Shur-lock panels (although I could).  I'm pretty comfortable using raw mesh and corner softening, along with pocketing the cost savings both for the table and the panels.

But thanks and hope it all works out for you.

Not to mention, I don't think my DIY table would bring much on the open market. 

I think you did a great job with the accelerator mimic. It's a pretty rudimentary idea they came up with, but it works, it's accurate, and I personally feel there is a lot less chance of popping, or over doing tension with it than the newman table. I won't name drop, but even one of, if not the biggest manufacturer in gear switched from using the pneumatic tables to stretch their newmans to a shurloc. For me, I had two of those roller masters, but training someone who's never done it before just proved to still have some gaps. Catchy rollers, or just forgetting to change an air setting, bumping a dam air switch, doing laps around the friggin table. The table you are using and shurloc, spin the table top, and just put your wrench in a position, almost anyone can start stretching, at the very least, it will be easier to train a greenhorn to step up, and get an initial stretch going without worrying about an air cylinder taking off an popping a screen panel

[screenxpress]

Thanks.  I'm basically retired (from IT) and a low volume guy, so large outlays were not in my financial plans, hence the DIY or I'd be all over the Accelerator.  I liked it when I saw the first demo.

Necessity is the mother of invention 

[pbdb]

I've had a Newman Rollermaster for a few years...  Still haven't figured out how to get a flat screen every time.  If someone know the trick...I'd love to know.

Scott

[screenxpress]

Don't have an answer, but an observation from seeing them run.

Since nothing is holding the frame down flat, except the hooks, that are under pressure, I can see that tightening any roller to the max torque on the first try may have the potential to lift up one of the opposing sides just a bit---against the pressure holding it down and when all bolts are tightened to max, the frame may---or may not be flat.

What about instead of torquing to the max, hit all the bolts at about 15-20 lbs.  Just enough to lock in the rollers while the frame is flat.  Then a final torque might not alter the opposing bolts leaving the frame laying flat. 

Just a thought.

[LoneWolf2]

Techincally, the way Newman tells you how to torque them is just as you describe. Tighten them a good bit of the way on your first trip around, then torque them down on the 2nd trip around.
Once I started doing that (after letting the frames stretch and sit for a few minutes before torquing down), i've had far fewer frames I needed to hit with the regular wrench to re-flatten after.

[screenxpress]

Something I noticed the other day and I'm gonna brag about it.....just a bit.

My table as shown above, a clone of Northland's design, is very similar to the functions of the Shur-Loc Accelerator.....BUT to me has one DIY improvement that helps to quickly re-flatten a frame after being torqued down.

In my picture above, there are 4 clamps that hold the frame down in the corners.  Accelerator does not have that.  Those clamps help hold the frame down reducing the times a frame is not flat after tightening the bolts.  Reduces but does not eliminate.

After torquing all the bolts, I pull out the wrenches and pins and release the 4 clamps.  When it's not flat, it usually occurs on the left roller at the square bar (I'll call it top right).  All I have to do is snap all 4 clamps back down and using the torque wrench, loosen the bottom left bolt and then just re tighten it.  No wrench needed.  Then release the clamps and it's flat.  It's like releasing and re-tightening that one bolt with the corners held down lets the frame pivot on the bottom left corner elbow to flatten the top right corner.   

I'm betting frames can come off the Accelerator and not be flat after torquing down.  And if/when that happens, I bet the operator has to have, and use, the Magnesium wrench, off the Accelerator table, to adjust the frame.  That takes two hands and some careful positioning to hold the wrench, loosen the bolt, push down on the wrench, and re-tighten the bolt.  Am I right?

And if that does happen, I'm also betting the same exact thing can happen with the Roller Master table, for the same reasons.  Tightening the bolts hard can cause pressures on the cables holding the rollers and allow the frame to lift slightly to be not flat when all is released.

Are ya's listening....Newman and Shur-Loc??  Add corner hold-down Clamps!!