Who decides which screen to use?

[ScreenFoo]

Well, maybe you have that one employee who knows everything.  If so, have him/her do it.

If you have multiple people with good experience, encourage them to speak with one another about what has and hasn't worked in the past.
They are likely to learn what the limitations and caveats of your situation are, and make things better.

If the screen, press, and pre-press people can't work together to improve quality then you have much bigger issues.

[mimosatexas]

83/71 saati, 135S, 180S, 225S, and 280T are all my meshes I actually like to use. I have a handful of other in the shop, but hate using them. I actually am thinking about dropping the 180 and looking into trying a higher eom 150S instead of the 135S for transfers and white bases on spot color stuff. I really wish there was like a 260S so I could get rid of the 280T and 225S

[Maxie]

Interesting reading how you all work.
In the USofA you have designers with silk screen experience.    Our designers know Illy and Photoshop but nothing about screening, they learn but it takes while.
We have one key worker who is in charge the printing dept.      He exposes screens and decides which screen to use.
I am the one whom reads TSB , goes to shows, visits other printers and keeps learning.      I pass this on to the printers and graphics.   
We use mainly 4 mesh counts, 110, 150, 220 and 305.      None are S meshes.      I tried S mesh and we ripped them very quickly.       I now have all the screens on wagons and am getting everyone to be more careful.     After the summer I'll try the S mesh again.
I go to an annual folk festival and also print their shirts, I have shirts going back about 16 years.    I can see how our printing has improved over the years.     Used to be so thick and now it's nice and thin.

[mk162]

We used to run 3 counts. 110 155 and 230.  Of course we have 305's and 60's around in case, but I would say 99% of our work fell into those 3.

We are slowly moving to 150s, 180s, 225s and 230.  I don't like the 225s for overprinting, it's a bit too much ink. 

I am really digging the s-mesh screens.  I wish I would have tried them sooner. 

[tonypep]

225/230= basically the same after tensioning. Mesh opening differential imperceptional

[mk162]

The 225s are the thin thread mesh. it has a theoretical open area of 42% vs the standard saati mesh of 27%.  We found that with several wet on wet over a base the 225s screens tended to build more and stick.

[tonypep]

Ahh I see

[Dottonedan]

The reason that I see that the guide should come from the art department (provided that they are trained in that) is that they know what they are intending. COlor prints don't always tell the story, but they help a lot. They may desire two white screens. One for a heavy thick laydown of bright white on a 156 or 110, and another for a very consistent, yet thin layer of solid white perhaps on a 305 with the ink based out 20%.....providing two different tones without using halftones. That can be confusing to production to see two white screens and neither is really a highlight.


On  the flip side, I don't know how many times I've called out to use a particular mesh in the art sheet, only to find out that it's being run with a 156 because they were all out of 305's.

[tonypep]

Ha how true! Here I have open discussions/e-mails with separators nec. I'll make substitions as needed when I know changing squeegee parameters/ sequence, etc will make it work and screens are marked with these instructions as needed (not often)

[Prince Art]

On  the flip side, I don't know how many times I've called out to use a particular mesh in the art sheet, only to find out that it's being run with a 156 because they were all out of 305's.

There's the rub between art [and even "best practices" in general] & production- however it "ought" to be done, the bottom line is very often it has to get done & out NOW. Regardless of how many preceding orders also had to get out NOW. Simply ignoring instructions is inexcusable. But if you're in a time crunch, you work with what you have because, whatever other concerns there may be, many times the production worker is in trouble if that order doesn't get moved out ASAP. (First time I ever used a 60 mesh screen, it should have been a 110 or better - but we'd been working over time for weeks, slammed all day every day. 60 was all that was left, and we got the order out!)

I suppose these last few posts put a spin on the answer to the original question - there's always the possibility of one person "officially" deciding what to use, and someone else actually deciding what to use. How often there's a discrepancy depends on dynamics of the individual shop, of course. But from a QC angle, it's worth knowing if that's happening.

[tonypep]

Thats what I call a "boots on the ground" post

[Maff]

I pick the mesh when doing the separation. But I usually give a 2nd option since we may not always have the 1st choice mesh available. It all goes on each film positive like this:

150 or 180 - white ink
Front center

[alan802]

Not to pick a fight, and this is only our shop and the few artists we've had in here, but none of them were even slightly qualified to choose the right mesh count for a particular job.  And one of those artists was quite good and I tried to teach him everything that I knew and was learning at the time.  He was here during our "renaissance" when we turned the corner from being just another print shop to putting out decent quality stuff so he learned a lot, but still, he didn't learn more than I did.  I'm sure there are some artists that know as much or more than I do about production, but even if they worked here it's still my call to make because I've been out here doing it for a long time and I can't remember the last mistake I made choosing a mesh count...so I trust ME.

[Dottonedan]

Not to pick a fight, and this is only our shop and the few artists we've had in here, but none of them were even slightly qualified to choose the right mesh count for a particular job.  And one of those artists was quite good and I tried to teach him everything that I knew and was learning at the time.  He was here during our "renaissance" when we turned the corner from being just another print shop to putting out decent quality stuff so he learned a lot, but still, he didn't learn more than I did.  I'm sure there are some artists that know as much or more than I do about production, but even if they worked here it's still my call to make because I've been out here doing it for a long time and I can't remember the last mistake I made choosing a mesh count...so I trust ME.

I trust you too.   Still, even the best production mgr needs to know what I'm thinking, or what I want to achieve so you can make the call. So as long as I give you a guide, you should be good to make your best judgement...and is why I stated what an artist gives production should be used as a guide.  I've really only worked in one shops where every artist was capable of calling out the mesh properly. (it was part of our SOP. and we had about 6 artist. In as many shops as I've been in, it's really only been about 1-2 out of 10 that have the artist call it out. There have been many artist who just can't even answer what line screen they typically print at. Typical answer is, "Whatever the default is that the film printer came with".

I don't care if someone changes things up, but eventually, I'm gonna know ''if you don't know" and then I would address the "who makes the call" question. One can't "make the call" simply because they hold a position that "they feel" should make the call. Bottom line is, you need to get it done right or very close to right as best can be. There were plenty of people in my past who wanted to make the call because they held a position but didn't hold the knowledge.  Ego thing.  An artist that comes in new to one of those shops knowing enough, always upsets the apple cart.



That said, of course, there are always exceptions.  I'd expect the production Mgr to know more than me, but that's not always the case as I've found. There are many production Mgr.s in place (for various reasons) and it's not always because they know production. Maybe they are good at scheduling/juggling orders on press, or the best person available working with or handling people issues as well as handling management issues.  To have one person (have a full grasp on each of those areas), is a rare find.


The best person to make the final call, is the one with the most knowledge. That can be the screen reclaim guy if need be.

[ScreenFoo]

Also in the 'not to pick a fight' camp, but as mentioned, several people here are coating two specs of stencils on the same mesh--those two stencils will resolve to different tolerances in two dimensions, affecting a number of other variables. 

Are you speccing a certain stencil type and thread dimension along with a mesh count?
I consider that pretty much the fancy part of my job.  You know, not VERY fancy, but still. 

For those keeping score, 125, 156, 230 are standard counts here.
150S for fancy base plates, 305/34's process, 86's metallic.