I-IMAGE ST

[AAMike]

What I am seeing after the first day of training on the art side:

 If you use the registration color in Illustrator for your targets, you will always get a sep for cmyk in the ripped output. If this is true, we need to lobby Adobe.

[Colin]

nope.

We use the registration color here.  But the files are always in rgb.  Zero issues with any cmyk conversion.  If we have ANY cmyk build leftover/hidden in the design however..... cmyk plates show up.

Double check that you do not have another layer of regimarks...

Also, have you figured out base whites yet?  Our installer had zero idea on how to do the art.... And it took me a few weeks to "remember" what could work.

[Ross_S]

You can turn those channels off in the RIP so they don't show up as selections when you image the screen

[tonypep]

Or convert to Photoshop files

[AAMike]

can the base whites or underbase be on a separate layer set to overprint? At least this is my approach.

[Ross_S]

What we do is add the full color image with crop marks to our 23x31 template.  Save the EPS and do all of that stuff.  Then we copy the image and put it off the art boards then make the base from image that is on the template and resave a 2nd EPS for the base.  By doing this the image never moves therefore the base and all top colors tri-loc correctly. 

[Sbrem]

can the base whites or underbase be on a separate layer set to overprint? At least this is my approach.

that works, but you can mark the top colors to overprint in the attributes panel, at least that's how we do it here...

Steve

[Ross_S]

I'm going to look at your method as well I didn't think about that.

[Dottonedan]

Most if not all Installers are not graphics artist and generally none of them have been trained in the graphics programs. While installing, they instruct you based off of what they have been told is a typical process that works for their machine and in general, it does, (but there is more).

For those who used to do film, it's a challenge getting used to. A lot of people broke up the separations manually for two reasons.

1, They didn't know how to have just one art file with all colors stacked (like as if for a color print)...and set it up correctly to print to films by using the overprint feature.

2, They had wide format film printers and needed to make use of all of the space so they would separate manually (pleasing seps side by side and changing all colors to one color black to decrease wasted film.


Attributes (OVERPRINT) fills and strokes and make use of layers.
For bases, it may also be more beneficial to use layers instead of moving things off to the sides. I like layers.  I've also found that (multiple artboards) can indeed cause slight miss registrations from base to top colors). That is an Illustrator thing and (NEVER) just copy and paste overtop. Copy and PASTE is NOT 100% dead on. Illustrator likes to take your manually moved numbers...(and round off) So don't copy and paste. Have all art one once layer, then Duplicate layer.

(I taught customers to use layers all the time) but for some, it's hard to get used to.  Art on one layer with fills and strokes overprinting *unless you intended something to knock out.  Overprinting is also odd to get used to...but works REALLY well once you do.  Also, for Illustrator users, USE the SEPARATION PREVIEW. It really does show you if what you've done will print out correctly. People always tell me, " I wish Illustrator had a preview of each separation as to how it's going to print. (It does). Separation Preview under the windows panel.

Then make a copy of that by (duplicating) that layer. Change layer name, Lock first (color layer). Then change all colors to spot color white. Make the white a color that is visible on screen such as a pink (BUT, do not make it just 100% magenta) or just 100% of any of the CMYK colors. This tricks the COlor print into thinking that you are intending t print that as a CMYK color.  Use 50%, 60% or whatever.

When using layers, (and overprint), you can send ONE TIME for all colors in one file, keeping your file archives more organized, keeping your underbase in the same ripped PRT file.

If you choose not to use the OVERPRINT feature for the base, you will need to send (two) separate saves...to the RIP. One for the colors, and one for the base. Do not SAVE AS another file to create your underbase. Just send twice from within the same file. THIS, is a more exact procedure than the SAVE AS two separate art files. Send from within, two times. Be sure to make sure each file is named the exact same...except for adding BASE in the color name (typically at the end of the name) when you send.

[Ross_S]

OK now I got to go play around.  I guess I never thought about that because I just did what I did for film. 

[Dottonedan]

Another thing about Separation Preview.  The file must be in CMYK color mode for the feature to work.   Then, since you are not printing CMYK, uncheck the top cmyk icon to hide those and then also check (show used spot colors only). Otherwise, it will give you every color you have in your color swatches.


You can also turn on the CMYK eyeballs and turn off all spot colors....to see if any of your art is still in CMYK.




and another thing.  Do not save a copy of the file (two separate files), one as a base and one as the colors. (Do not do that). It's treating each one as a new and separate item. Therefore, not all things can align up (especially going from adobe math to Color Print Rip math). You would think math is math, but again, math is not fool proof. in the cases of "new files" and copying and pasting.
it's often rounding off and reinterpreting...and not always identical. Have you ever noticed that when you save a copy of a file...and look at the file size...and notice that they are not identical in file size? Things change.  A bit here, a node there.


DUPLICATE LAYERS.

[Dottonedan]

What I am seeing after the first day of training on the art side:

 If you use the registration color in Illustrator for your targets, you will always get a sep for cmyk in the ripped output. If this is true, we need to lobby Adobe.

  This is not 100% true. Something is missing in your process. I've had that happen but no, It can work right, I just have to remember whats causing that.

Also note, that using the default Registration marks and color names, dates, rip info etc having the program put that on your files in your folder setups...can cause some RIP issues. Avoid doing that by adding the info yourself on the file and all is fine.


Another tip.
When in the art file, (keep the width the same, but always crop up close to the bottom of the art. Drag any registration marks up closer to the bottom of the actual art file (and NOT the template). Then crop the document before you send. This decreases file size, rips faster...and PRINTS faster on the I-Image since the head does not need to travel all the way down to the bottom of every template.


These are a few of the real world tips to improve the process.

[Colin]

Duplicate/copy paste in front -  art into a second layer/make the white plate/select all of the white plate/hit multiply for the blending mode/white plate and colors in one file.

[Dottonedan]

Duplicate/copy paste in front -  art into a second layer/make the white plate/select all of the white plate/hit multiply for the blending mode/white plate and colors in one file.

Copy/paste in front or behind... (in the art file) no problem. Don't copy/paste to a new file even with same document dimensions.

[Colin]

Duplicate/copy paste in front -  art into a second layer/make the white plate/select all of the white plate/hit multiply for the blending mode/white plate and colors in one file.

Copy/paste in front or behind... (in the art file) no problem. Don't copy/paste to a new file even with same document dimensions.

Just realized what I wrote read weird.  Yea, Paste only into the new layer in the same art file.  Either paste behind or in front.