Decided to take it up....Making an LED Exposure unit.

[Sbrem]

I would aim to be able to fit 2 23x31 or 23x33 in the largest size, with the added benefit that it will hold single larger poster/sign screens as well.

Like I said, I am not going to get carried away with multiple models. The plan was, and still is to make a powerful unit that is affordable. Most people will never need to burn 2-23x31 screens at the same time, especially with exposure times sub 2-minutes. A model to fit 31x41 would be for graphics users but as mentioned its merely an idea at this time, no commitments.

We have a pretty large vacuum frame and burn 2 - 23 x 3`1's routinely, with a 5K Metal Halide lamp, but the difference in the exposure times would probably render that moot. The question would be perhaps whether you are getting 2 screens at a much faster time than currently burning 2 up...

Steve

[Rockers]

I know its an old thread now, and I wish that I could report back with some pictures...but the reality of manufacturing in China is one of where if you want to make something, there is everything you can imagine. However like most things its about numbers, 1 of something = forget it, 100 = maybe and 10,000 is a "base" but still a price that makes it hard. Well that is kind of where I am at, debating on how much I want to invest in order to get the price point I want.

My LED mfg wants a (min) order of 50,000 in order to make my custom design and there is a 90 day lead time due to special tooling and fitting my "small" run into their production schedule. Whats nuts is that they can make them in just one day....its the scale of capacity here, its insane. Under 50,000 unit order and they are made in the prototype lab and the prices triple!! The budget for this is already tight and I am weighing my desire to make a professional unit right off the bat, or as I am considering making an "entry level" unit with off the shelf LED's and testing the waters.

However I am intrigued to see that Anatol has obviously been reading this thread and has even implemented my design into their own equipment. LED's surface mounted on metal boards and in a staggered position for even light distribution. Not really very surprising though, but I guess that in a way it does validate my own design concept so maybe I should be flattered?

Either way a sneak peek at Anatol's new design that completely implements what I have clearly stated here as my own design.

Will send you a PM in a minute regarding your LED unit.

[Prōdigium]

We have a pretty large vacuum frame and burn 2 - 23 x 3`1's routinely, with a 5K Metal Halide lamp, but the difference in the exposure times would probably render that moot. The question would be perhaps whether you are getting 2 screens at a much faster time than currently burning 2 up...

Actually the speed of LED would be vastly quicker than Metal Halide, so in my mind is whether the extra COST of a larger exposure unit is worth it? If you can use a smaller unit, burning screens as fast, or faster than a big unit....why pay the added price and waste the shop space? When you in the 10 second exposure ranges or less than the bottle neck becomes simply rinsing the image out, not burning the screen. Having a larger unit would be for shops that physically have bigger frames...in my opinion at least.

My current situation is one of merely negotiating with vendors to get the things I need, at a reasonable price without having to buy them by the million as is often the case here in China. The custom LED's I had made for me have far exceeded my expectations, but 50,000 of them is a chunk of change. I am in talks with a few vendors in an effort to find a partner/investor willing to fund the manufacturing startup phase. As noted the problem is bulk purchasing, its simply beyond my financial means at this time to get the ball rolling on building the professional unit I have designed. However its likely that will change soon. I will keep everyone updated when I have more news.

[Prōdigium]

Well, progress has not gone as quickly as I had anticipated on the PRO-unit, however I am currently testing 2 demos of my "economy" LED unit that uses high quality parts based off my testing rig. The units will be available soon, not sure of the venue yet as I am trying to negotiate a deal with a large supplier that would become my exclusive distributor. If I cannot close a deal by Christmas, the unit will be sold on my website and Ebay.

The unit will be a very sleek, compact unit that uses 120 multi-spectrum UV LED's, which work good but are not the same as the ones that will be on my Pro-Unit. The intended target audience is newbies, home based and start-ups looking for a high quality unit that gets the job done. Its a no frills unit, simple on/off button without a timer....at least yet, because the case is tight and so far I have not been able to locate a timer that fits except one and its a little hard to use. It will use a compression top, vacuum top may be offered in the future, I am working on it now and I am hopeful that it will be something that can be upgraded later.

Here are some shots of the model, it will be for 20x24 screens. Its 100% plug and play from the box - completely assembled. It uses my own custom designed LED boards and each LED is multi-spectrum. The glass is real PPG Starphire non-lead 6mm and is locked inside the channel to fully protect it from breakage. All electrical components are enclosed inside the extruded aluminum dual channel frame. At this time I am not disclosing a price until I complete negotiations with a US dealer, who will hopefully pickup the product.

The pictures are from its development stages, not very pretty but it shows the design....very compact, and all parts are plug in so you can replace anything simply by unplugging it and removing at most a couple screws. If I end up selling direct then it will also come with a full 5 year warranty on all parts, except the glass. Hope to have more word on this in the coming weeks. More or less I am hoping to sell enough of these to fund the next phase professional unit which is in testing, but I need to raise funds to get it into production as buying all the components in bulk is a hefty price tag. A 23x31 size might become available? I am a little concerned that the glass may get broken in shipping.

[mimosatexas]

I like the low profile and the overall build, but I'm a little curious about the distance between the LED's vs the proximity to the glass.  I'm not seeing how the current geometry wouldn't lead to hot and cold spots based on the distances between the led's on the strips vs the distance between strips especially.

[ZooCity]

Great looking starter model.  Heat will be a concern with your design unless you are selling it for fast shooting pp emulsion only.   Your LED boards will resist warping much better than the "top of the line" led unit out there but you can still warp that nice glass with the heat generated. 

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

WARNING:  THREAD HIJACK ALERT!!!!

I have been buying T-8 LED Fluorescent tubes in 4 foot lengths. They have come down in price, and I just got a case of 50 for $8.00 each, which included shipping and sales tax. They are 5000 Kelvin temperature range but they also sell 4000, and 6500 at least, if not more color ranges.

I wonder if a guy could use those? I have no way to measure or evaluate for correct UV energy, but it just hit me, that it might be a possible light source.

Each tube includes its own driver, so they run on a 120 volts, as supplied. Each fixture requires rewiring so that both pins (of the Bi-Pin tubes) are "hot" on one end and Neutral on the other.

These lamps would not technically be optimized for UV emissions, but I wonder. They are STUPID bright! The die spacing in each tube is very close. From tube to tube would be a minimum of 1".

 

I'll shut up now.

[ZooCity]

Stan, you can get a 19.5' reel of the 400nm UV output LEDs for a couple hundred bucks online.  A starlight is basically a bunch of these stuck on a board with a simple driver.  You could go a lot further for not much more expense and put a dimming driver on there for shooting different emulsions, etc.  Would be a way better investment/project than trying to make some lighting product work.   

Prodigium's concept here is superior to the strips which will likely never be 100% accurate in mounting but for a diy project check out those reels.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Thanks Chris.

LED's are definitely making inroads into the world of lighting.

I use mostly Diazo (WR 25) and from what I've read, LED isn't the best light source anyhow. The thought just passed through my mind. I enjoy building projects so I won't rule it out for some point in the future.

[ZooCity]

Thanks Chris.

LED's are definitely making inroads into the world of lighting.

I use mostly Diazo (WR 25) and from what I've read, LED isn't the best light source anyhow. The thought just passed through my mind. I enjoy building projects so I won't rule it out for some point in the future.

The histogram for most of the UV LEDs aren't optimal for diazo added but they do work, I can attest to that, albeit slowly. 

[TCT]

The unit will be a very sleek, compact unit that uses 120 multi-spectrum UV LED's,

I'm no lawyer, well at least until I can find a $19.95 online degree. But I'm pretty sure the multi spectrum led unit approach for a exposure unit is already patented in the states.

[Prōdigium]

To address some of the concerns raised.

For starters, its a "Starter" unit and of course will not be as capable as say a $4500 LED unit, that said its performance will give more bang for the buck than any fluorescent-tube unit. The LED's are not high power, in fact they are only 1 watt each, Anatol's are 5 watts and I can assume that M$R is roughly the same. So they must be raised a bit closer to the glass for better performance. As for dispersion of light, the LED's have a wide 120 degree angle lens so the light is no as directly focused as it looks, the layout is staggered to lower the chances of hot/cold spots. Given its not a perfect layout, but it will more than meet the needs of any startup shop by comparison to anything that will be in its price range, and many that are much more expensive. But lets be real, its audience is home startups, hobbyist and maybe even for PCB plates, not for shops running 3 autos doing 85lpi sim process.

Heat is NOT a factor, at only a watt each and exposures taking roughly 15~30 seconds with the emulsions I have tested heat has simply not a problem. Like most startup shops I do not think there will be continuous screen burning, as in making 30+ screens a day, so really again its not a factor. The glass is 6mm (1/4") thick and as such can take a lot of heat if need be. If I find with testing that heat becomes a factor, than a simple solution will be to use a 3cm fan in the back of the frame to draw heat out...easy enough and its already been considered, but as yet not required. Lastly, there is no way in the world 120 watts of LED's will "warp" 6mm glass, no-how no-way. The glass is sealed in the frame, like a window pane its not going anywhere.

Patent...well possibly? I have read thoroughly the patent given to one company about this and my take on it is that it pertains specifically to the design of the multi-spectrum "bulb" which is in fact multiple LED's, each with its own wavelength built into a large screw in bulb, which ironically is commonly available already in China. While my PCB boards are custom made to fit the case, the LED's are in fact off the shelf units, not custom made. This design is not even close to the same, the LED's I am using are just a broad spectrum UV LED commonly used in wide format digital printers that use UV inks. So I guess that I should state that they are not true "multi-spectrum" but rather "wide spectrum."

One idea that I have considered is also to sell the strips and matched drivers as replacements for anyone who uses fluorescent tubes, or for those wanting to make their own home built DIY's. With the metal LED boards it would be a snap to retrofit a case and the drivers are also very small, but requires 1 driver for every 2 boards. This may be something I will offer if I see there is a demand, I can also produce longer boards with up to 36 LED's on each strip. Dramatically more power than any "rope style" LED light.

[Prōdigium]

Just an update on this old thread.

As those that have read, I was trying to build an affordable LED unit for the masses of small and startup shops that could deliver performance for a price that would make it pretty much in a class of its own. After a lot of work, multiple design changes and some plain old luck it now looks like this will finally come to fruition. At this time I cannot say when, but I can say it has passed a number of basic performance tests and will soon be evaluated by an industry leading emulsion company for further performance testing.

Unlike my my original plan to build them here in China, they will instead be built in the USA using my LED strips and a few select parts. It will be sold through distributors and of course on my new website when it re-launches. It has taken 3 times longer than I anticipated and it may still be awhile before its out there, but its coming soon and it will be the first of many other products to come.

More news when its ready.