ROQ discussion Split from "The Honeymoon Is Over-4 Months In, Gauntlet 3"

[blue moon]

I should probably post this in a new topic, but it is relevant. . . Our experience with the ROQ has been almost identical. Great presses and so far great service. YOU has been faultless, ECO needed a sensor and a toggle switch replaced. There are some features missing in the software that both I and my guys are used to, but it seems the upgrade is coming. Just like Alan, our presses were not set up to the specs I'd like (I might be asking too much though). MHM was a little more polished, but the difference is very, very small. We have run into software glitches here and there, maybe one or two per month. Quick reset with the e-stop sorts it out so it only causes about 5-10 seconds of delay. As we get used to the press we are seeing them less often, so it could be something we were doing.
Overall, super happy with the press. Lead printer that printed on just about anything out there said he would not go to anything else.
We try to use most of the bells and whistles on it, somehow they work their way into the processes and they do save time and make things easier. Not a huge difference, but a percent here and there adds up. At this time we use the ROQCool on most of the prints. It blows the fuzz away better than the lint screen. Floodbars are superior to the MHM's as we go about four times as long between re-inking. Little things add up.

Agreed with many here that once you get to a certain level, it is all nitpicking. Any non lemon press should be able to make you good money!

pierre

[ffokazak]

Hahaha Lawson Troopers 

[AntonySharples]

My honeymoon was over about 2 years ago with my YOU.  I never say much about it here, but I'll give my opinions....

This was my first auto and I was a run of the mill printer.  No clue on really how to print, just get them out the door.  Thankfully, I had some great mentors that taught me the right way and we jumped levels.  But this also showed me some flaws in the YOU carriage system that I wouldn't have known existed if I didn't learn.  The older YOU's have an inferior scissor cylinder causing uneven pressure.  To most people probably not a big deal, to me it is.  The air lines to to carriage are too small and carry too little CFM.  I hear and have seen that these sort of issues have been changed for the most part, and the ECO is a very nice machine, but I have other reasons (see below) why I would think twice for my next press.

What I like?  I love the heads down.  I love the openness of the machine and the ease of loading and unloading screens.  Not sure if it saves me a 1/4 second or not, but it is easy and nice.  Having been around and test drove a GT3, I love the ROQ on that front.  Some of the features I was shown on the GT3 were just standard issue on the lowest tier ROQ for half the price. It is quiet and very easy to operate.  The simpler the better in my opinion.  I couldn't imagine not having heads down or the ease of getting in and out now.

Why would I hesitate to get another?  1) The carriage assembly and it fitting MY needs.  2) Service...this is the big one.  Our press was out of parallel from the get go.  We learned to compensate for it and it wasn't until we learned to print that we really realized it.  Couldn't get anyone out here for a year and a half.  Last week, my entire center lifting cylinder assembly came loose.  The whole thing was rocking around, all the arms were rocking loose.  Called into tech support, 24 hours later I got a call back.  24 hours.  I could have been down for 24 hours and no one could call back.  I found all the set screws came loose in the housing(don't know how that happened) and fixed it, but no one called back.  Thankfully we haven't had any major down time issues, but that was an eye opener.  I'm sure some are dutifully taken care of, and others are not, but that cannot happen.  As Brandt said, we are printing money.  If that press stops, so does the money.  That's more important than anything to me.

Long story short, if you make great screens, do the little things right, you can make great prints and great money on just about anything.  But if that press stops, and stops printing money, it doesn't matter what bells and whistles you have or how fast that machine sets up and prints.

[ZooCity]

I need a few more weeks of honeymoon I think before saying much more but I'll put this into the mix:

Our Eco feels like it actually has way less going on in a way when it comes to the bells/whistles v. the higher end M&R or MHM machines.  It's much simpler in how you use the press day to day and that's a very good thing to me. The Evo flashes are core to this imo.  You aren't messing with settings as much, you lock in test up and go.  The flashes adjust as your run goes and the temp is stable.  Foot pedal brake takes the constant dwell adjusting out of the equation and I think it results in much better run times for my crew.   I find that overall there is significantly less toggling around in the gui.  Revolve programming is simple.   Self leveling carriage and dead nuts parallel rules out most planar issues.  There are limited areas on the print head and platen arm that could be loose or out of adjustment v. other designs.

There are no super fancy controls imo on this machine, it's more about simplicity in design and basics to me. 

Exceptions are:

Off contact, I wish that were digitally controlled, it's a time suck checking and adjusting all the heads manually.  Clearly it can't be central o.c. due to the design but it should be automated somehow.

Piezo buttons + buttons mounted to circ board directly on heads- stupid.  Asking for trouble in the long haul and already creating some right now.

Digital micro feedback also stupid, vernier scales are just easier.  X axis moved 0.16 doesn't have relevance, we're not robots...yet.  And yes, we still have to micro jobs even with CTS, that's life with multiple screen and press ops so far, working on it though.

Pressure adjustment sucks like it does on any other machine using those smc cyls with the push lock.  They don't give accurate feedback- you want to knock pressure down a touch, looks right on the dial and then it drops 20 psi on next print.  That said the solution would involve cyls that were super accurate but constantly leaked a little air.  A little more whistle here would be nice.

The rest I find beautifully simple.  We'll see how it holds parallel over time, still a little paranoid about that but there's no substitute for a good install.   Which I will say the install approach is holistic v. what I have seen on other machines and our tech was happy to dial it in to my standards. 

Overall I find troubleshooting my crew through a problem easier on this platform which means a lot to someone in my position.

The biggest trade off with the Eco, in my eyes, is the fact that s.roque is a progressive company rolling out updates.  This is fantastic in some ways but will inherently mean bugs and some down time or weird time here and there, that's life if you want constant improvement.

In the end I heartily agree with others notes that it's the screens, the art, etc. that matter.  Give me simplicity, repeatability and reliability on my press so I can focus my attention on everything else.  (and keep my crew focused on what matters, not the machine)

[GraphicDisorder]

My honeymoon was over about 2 years ago with my YOU.  I never say much about it here, but I'll give my opinions....

This was my first auto and I was a run of the mill printer.  No clue on really how to print, just get them out the door.  Thankfully, I had some great mentors that taught me the right way and we jumped levels.  But this also showed me some flaws in the YOU carriage system that I wouldn't have known existed if I didn't learn.  The older YOU's have an inferior scissor cylinder causing uneven pressure.  To most people probably not a big deal, to me it is.  The air lines to to carriage are too small and carry too little CFM.  I hear and have seen that these sort of issues have been changed for the most part, and the ECO is a very nice machine, but I have other reasons (see below) why I would think twice for my next press.

What I like?  I love the heads down.  I love the openness of the machine and the ease of loading and unloading screens.  Not sure if it saves me a 1/4 second or not, but it is easy and nice.  Having been around and test drove a GT3, I love the ROQ on that front.  Some of the features I was shown on the GT3 were just standard issue on the lowest tier ROQ for half the price. It is quiet and very easy to operate.  The simpler the better in my opinion.  I couldn't imagine not having heads down or the ease of getting in and out now.

Why would I hesitate to get another?  1) The carriage assembly and it fitting MY needs.  2) Service...this is the big one.  Our press was out of parallel from the get go.  We learned to compensate for it and it wasn't until we learned to print that we really realized it.  Couldn't get anyone out here for a year and a half.  Last week, my entire center lifting cylinder assembly came loose.  The whole thing was rocking around, all the arms were rocking loose.  Called into tech support, 24 hours later I got a call back.  24 hours.  I could have been down for 24 hours and no one could call back.  I found all the set screws came loose in the housing(don't know how that happened) and fixed it, but no one called back.  Thankfully we haven't had any major down time issues, but that was an eye opener.  I'm sure some are dutifully taken care of, and others are not, but that cannot happen.  As Brandt said, we are printing money.  If that press stops, so does the money.  That's more important than anything to me.

Long story short, if you make great screens, do the little things right, you can make great prints and great money on just about anything.  But if that press stops, and stops printing money, it doesn't matter what bells and whistles you have or how fast that machine sets up and prints.

I think service/support will continue to be the biggest differences in machine manufactures for years to come.

[zanegun08]

Some of the features I was shown on the GT3 were just standard issue on the lowest tier ROQ for half the price.

The quotes I have had for comparable ROQ presses are 20-30k higher than the Gauntlet 3 for the same machine.  They of course compare them to the Challenger 3, which would be more in the same ballpark cost wise.

Where are you getting that ROQ is half the cost?  You get a screaming deal?

[ryanmoor]

What a thread. It's interesting to see multiple perspectives on the ROQ machines and others of course, Antony, I think your machine was one of the first used machines we broke and definitely does not have the smoothest history from installing the pallets not level and letting that fester for too long to the lifting cylinder being recalled which happened to about 20 machines here in the US when ROQ tried making their own cylinders. The new model YOU M's which is the smallest machine have addressed all these above issues with CFM, lines, print carriage, squeegee height, etc. Our service team and process is being improved and overhauled as well. We track everything with an extensive ticketing system that is now uses by the entire team, some are still not being responded to fast enough but we are working through better notifications and systems in order to do that too. Jeremy at SingleInk just got an Eco with choppers which is a very simple upgrade and cost effective, I can see the need for it in some applications though most ROQ lovers don't ask for it.

Anyway, good feedback and take aways to improve service. We have some recent changes that have not been rolled out the best way so I am going to send an email to all ROQ owners tomorrow with some updates.

I'd still put the Eco against anything and for how far you have come, everything you have learned and been able to do in such a short time, I think that is the caliber of press that fits your printing and expectations

ZooCity, we are adding the scales back to the Micro's too BTW, So it will have digital and scale to dial in.

good thread.

[ZooCity]

Ryanmoor I think that's a good move with the scales. I really thought digital would be cool and it cleans up the print head but it's just not practical.  I do have an idea that might make it work though,  shoot me an email if interested.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[1964GN]

The reality is that all brands can have issues. We own both M&R and ROQ presses and both have had issues.

Our Diamond Back and Fusion R dyer have had so many issues since purchased that it would be several paragraphs to outline all of them. When your dryer falls to the ground because the bolts were hollow and failed, that's a problem. M&R service, for us, has been far less than stellar as well.

Initially, service from Ryonet was beyond stellar. They are experiencing some growing pains right now and their new processes for service requests or questions are falling down pretty hard. Something they need to address quickly. Ryan and his team are pretty smart people and we are confident that things will improve in short order. In 2 1/2 years our ROQ press has been down for zero seconds. We can't say that about our Diamond Back which exceeds multiple days.

Everyone likes different presses for different reasons. For us the ease of use far exceeds anything we have seen from M&R. We just hired a new printer. He was working at a large shop with multiple NEW M&R presses. The press he was on was a GT3 and just yesterday commented on how easy the ROQ press was to operate and that hope he would never have to run an M&R again. The dude was running the press without assistance after the first day on the job.

[blue moon]

Ryanmoor I think that's a good move with the scales. I really thought digital would be cool and it cleans up the print head but it's just not practical.  I do have an idea that might make it work though,  shoot me an email if interested.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

my vote is against digital adjustments too. It most definitely sounds cool and exciting, but turns out analog is faster and more intuitive. Digital readout is nice and it might not hurt to keep it though.

pierre

[DannyGruninger]

That's what Roq is going back to..... Traditional knobs/buttons but still having a digital readouts combined with the traditional needle/bullseye registration guide. The best of both worlds for sure.

[GraphicDisorder]

I guess Alans thread is now a Roq thread. 

[244]

I guess Alans thread is now a Roq thread. 

LOL! Mission accomplished i guess.

[bimmridder]

That's why I find it hard to visit here anymore. Seems to go where it wasn't intended. I know it's hard to stay on track. I guess I have better things to do. You all enjoy your stay here. I'm out

[blue moon]

sorry, that was my fault. I thought another update would make sense as it was the same topic, but everything sort of continued on a tangent. I went ahead and split the topic.

The change was not intentional, my apologies for that. Anybody thinking that it was, might want to rethink their opinions. I share with ppl what I find exciting and is currently relevant. ROQ is what I am working on and exposed to now. Just like it was halftones, white ink and MHM before. . .

pierre