Newman high tension....or MUrakami lower.more open mesh?

[Dottonedan]

I know the difference from why you might want a static over a roller frame (retensionable).


With the higher interest in Murakami S thread..thinner thread, more halftone, less mesh interference and more ink down faster I'm looking at the differences.


I'm not fond of "more ink" idea. More ink, doesn't equate to better for me...unless it's for solid athletic printing (and ironically we do more of that...than sim process,  but Sim process does not bode well with more ink, so it seems counter productive for that purpose. Even on the base, I want a thinner lay down...not more.  You want your colors to be controlled and laid down thin to blend...not heavy and opaque.


Now sure, more halftone is great! (So they say).  I haven't yet been able to get a Murakami 180S to hold 3% dots at 55lpi BUT, we are not using a great light source either and I'm sure out exp time can be adjusted tighter. I will get there soon enough.


So, the idea behind HIGH TENSION and Newman mesh..and roller frames is


Repeatability from order to order being able to maintain the right or (same) tension.
Thin, consistent coverage releasing an opaque coverage yet thin...laying on top (more so) than S thread.
A larger open area (similar to S thread) in the right scenario...but thicker/stronger threads...or is it?  Once tensioned to say 60N, the open area is larger and still durable (enough) or equivalent to or better than...Murakami S mesh.


So,  If you can get there consistently, with higher tension, aren't you using less ink/softer print compared to S thread?
I feel the paradigm has shifted towards S thread...simply for the majority of printers lacking a higher end soft hand need. (as in, brighter/faster/heavier is better. Kinda stepping backwards in screen print history so to speak.


Now, before we hear from Murakami, or Newman can we hear from actual users?  Does anyone still use Newman mesh and rollers?

[DannyGruninger]

I was a longtime newman mesh/roller frame user... High tension - everything above 40 newtons even on our high mesh stuff. The only way to get the newman mesh to work well is super high tension and maintaining it. Over the last couple years I have started to phase out my newman mesh(still using newman frames as I love the control) but we are using thin thread diameter right now. We have a combination of murakami, dynamesh, saati, and sefar here currently but all of them are thin thread diameter/lower tension screens. The thin thread offers so many advantages that I would 100% suggest it. Frame is debatable as I still really love the control the newman gives along with how it can register against a dts/reg pallet but my vote being a user is no doubt thin thread mesh using lower tension.

[DannyGruninger]

And as for sim process with thin thread as long as your running high mesh its great..... 280-330 mesh with thin diameter works great for sim process... My favorite combo is 225/40 for underbase and 280/34 for top colors.

[blue moon]

bigger opening will mean it clears easier rather than " more ink". That means faster print speeds for the same amount of ink.
S mesh is also significantly thinner than the regular mesh, so if done correctly, at least in theory, it should be able to deliver thinner deposit (which in turn means less ink).
think this way, solid block is a solid block

pierre

[Colin]

Currently in the middle of switching to Newman frames/Newman hydraulic table with Murakami S mesh.  Been running S mesh on Sur-lok frames last few years.  Love it.

I want the tension control that Newman frames give you, but I am finding not everyone can thread mesh without popping it >.< ....  I have walked into so many blown panels the last few days.  Always in the channel too.

My vote will always be for S mesh, especially with sim-process.  But make sure you pick a solution your shop can handle without a master screen op present...

Danny:  You have switched your inks again correct?  All waterbase/HSA?  Is that why all lower tension screens?

[mimosatexas]

I'm still all statics, but the thin thread mesh is ridiculously awesome.  Pierre said exactly what I have experienced in my shop: thinner final ink deposit and better overall opacity etc.  This is due to simply clearing easier and with less pressure so the ink isnt being driven into the shirt. or mashed over a base.

[Screen Dan]

I'm also voting for thin-thread meshes over high tension meshes for all of the reasons already mentioned...also because of how much more tightly calibrated your press needs to be.  Since I'm not maintaining the presses anymore I don't trust the constant flow of noobs to do that.  We're too big of an organization so me stepping into the shop would have to be at the request of the shop production manager...and that's happened only twice in the past 7 years since I left the shop.  Between leveling the platens and heads and having an feel for off-contact and proper squeegee angels there is just too much to consider.  Most of those operators are scared to death of force flooding with the flood bar.

In my experience you get far more leeway with thin thread mesh, and it's not like we're not putting out awesome prints.  We have consistently walked away with at least one golden squeegee if not more every time we've submitted work.  (To be fair I'm not bragging...I'm pretty sure the SGIA membership fee entitles you to 1 golden squeegee a year, lol)

55lpi is a breeze, though 8-10% is the smallest dot we're holding...the fact that I roll off hard under 8% probably has a lot to do with that.  But don't tell the art department that.

[mk162]

So if I currently use a ton of 155 and 230's what should I get in thin thread mesh?  I think we might start switching over.

[Gilligan]

So if I currently use a ton of 155 and 230's what should I get in thin thread mesh?  I think we might start switching over.

They have 150 and 225.

Same detail, just be able to get better coverage while keeping that detail.

[starchild]

I would like to add that "retentionable frames" are more favorable for the fact that you can stretch your own mesh to desirable conditions- i.e. squared, balanced and stable..

Fortunately once these conditions are met- using low elongation mesh, affords you the ability not to have the cause to re-stretch and change the balance of the mesh for the sake of achieving mere tension..

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[Northland]

So if I currently use a ton of 155 and 230's what should I get in thin thread mesh?  I think we might start switching over.

I've dropped my 156 mesh (statics) and switched to 180S statics (from SpotColor Supply). I can't prove it, but I think I get better opacity, softer hand and less dot gain with the 180S.
Most of the 180S & 225S statics come in the door at about 23-25 N/cm and seem to hold that level for a long time.

[Nation03]

Thin all the way. I use 135-S, 150-S, and 180-S for most jobs. I might get some 280 and 305 Saati mesh screens for the auto for when I need to print wet on wet. But most of my jobs are 1-2 colors with the occasional 3-4 color job.

[Rockers]

And as for sim process with thin thread as long as your running high mesh its great..... 280-330 mesh with thin diameter works great for sim process... My favorite combo is 225/40 for underbase and 280/34 for top colors.

What made you choose T-mesh for the top colors? Just curious what`s the difference over using S-mesh for example?

[Underbase37]

Another vote for thin here, for all the reasons already listed.

Murphy

[AntonySharples]

Thin thread gives you more open area. The open area allows you to run faster creating a greater fluid pressure head with the ink, resulting in a thinner deposit with greater opacity.  Ink, without additives, that's high shearing will thin itself out on the print end and will be more opaque, with low eom, given proper mesh, squeegee selection.  On the process end, thin thread, due to the properties listed already will not lay down more ink, but properly lay down the correct amount at a greater speed with less angle and less eom, less pressure resulting in better dots, less gain, and sharper prints.  When cared for properly, thin thread mesh will last a very very long time.