3 Weeks In, Gauntlet III Initial Thoughts

[ffokazak]

Zoo hurry up and get that press installed so I can get my Quik Clamp 

[DannyGruninger]

We saw roughly 10% more dot gain on our rubber top pallets then we are seeing on the aluminum. I'm going to go do training at a large shop in vegas within the next week or so.... They run several m&r presses, recently put a roq in their shop and the production manager told me all high end artwork has been moved to the roq machine due to the dot gain. I'm planning to measure some of their prints old vs new to see what I find there regarding rubber top vs non rubber top. GT3 is a solid machine glad that your digging it Alan!

[ZooCity]

Yeah, 4000 series definitely is not deflecting, haha.   I saw the same differences between the X and S types but even the S didn't seem like enough support for me and the S type puts the price up in the Eco range.

Dude, Rstefanick, I'm constantly stealing one of our little mitutoyo steel rules and carrying it around. Half the problems my guys have that they can't solve on their own are press calibration.   I don't think pocket protectors go well with flannel but I'll give it a whirl just for you.  Maybe add a holster for a temp gun and eom gauge.  Look out ladies.

Heading your way next week Andrew!

[blue moon]

for anybody following, there are no issues with G3. This is not a knock on any press model or manufacturer. It's just an adjustment on the regulator or in the RIP. Different presses print differently. Learn how to run your press.

pierre

[bimmridder]

Come on Rick. I've seen those gems you get to run with.

[alan802]

Come on Rick. I've seen those gems you get to run with.

I wonder how much money those gems have made over the last 22 years.  It's probably insane.

[tonypep]

Yes, insane is pretty appropiate. They have seen better days but still put out some amazingly good stuff on a daily basis

[RICK STEFANICK]

Yes they do. But we're defiantly not checking pallet deflection and pallet tolerances. I can tell you they do get the job done without payments and running 90 percent waterbased inks they still hold their own. We have a really tight crew now and they make them their own and that helps tremendously.

[alan802]

I don't have any major updates as of this moment, but I want to keep this thread freshened up and say a few little things.  We started a 1600 piece, 2 color, white only so print, flash, print late on Friday and I'm about to start back on that job in a few minutes.  My dad had hip replacement surgery early this morning and he's just been taken to his new room and is doing FANTASTIC so I've been a little behind on getting this job finished.  I'll blast through the rest in a few hours and I'll do a video of us printing and try to get it posted later today.  Stay tuned.

Oh yeah, this machine is freaking awesome, it's kind of like the RPM was the first few weeks in that every day I am more and more impressed with the press.  It's just getting better and better.  No glitches, no issues, nothing other than a perfectly working "MANpress".  Not that a woman can't run it, but think like a world class strength athlete that also still has speed, agility and quickness, that's the G3.

[shirtshack]

Hi, I just made the connection that videos I had been watching on YouTube were from yourself, I was impressed at the speed you could run your print heads, and it has made me think I need to change the way I run my mhm x type plus.
Printing international coatings legacy white, print flash print through Newman screens with a 150s mesh the fastest I can run the print head is 0 to 1.5 out of a possible 10 on the mhm dial and still get the screen to clear, this prevents me going any faster than 520 print per hour.
Not sure what's holding me back?
Action double blade squeegee, with a pair triple ply blades, 50/90/50 (orange ones)
Ic legacy ink (we print a lot of poly cotton sweats, so easier to use just one white ink rather than also use a cotton white)
Off contact set to 4 for tees and 8 for sweats ( I believe that's mm so 8mm off contact for a sweat, it seems excessive, but any less and the screen will not clear with one stroke)
Open to suggestions of how I can improve speed?

[alan802]

Hi, I just made the connection that videos I had been watching on YouTube were from yourself, I was impressed at the speed you could run your print heads, and it has made me think I need to change the way I run my mhm x type plus.
Printing international coatings legacy white, print flash print through Newman screens with a 150s mesh the fastest I can run the print head is 0 to 1.5 out of a possible 10 on the mhm dial and still get the screen to clear, this prevents me going any faster than 520 print per hour.
Not sure what's holding me back?
Action double blade squeegee, with a pair triple ply blades, 50/90/50 (orange ones)
Ic legacy ink (we print a lot of poly cotton sweats, so easier to use just one white ink rather than also use a cotton white)
Off contact set to 4 for tees and 8 for sweats ( I believe that's mm so 8mm off contact for a sweat, it seems excessive, but any less and the screen will not clear with one stroke)
Open to suggestions of how I can improve speed?

If your off contact is 4mm for regular tees then I'd say that is a bit excessive, but probably not your issue unless your screens are of VERY high tension.  A 150/48 isn't capable of high tension so I don't think you have a problem there.  Our OC is usually around 1/16" to 1/8".  I've never used the Action double blade but I know enough about it to think that it's not your problem but you should be able to use a standard blade, 70 duro, and clear a 150/48 with one stroke at 15"/sec, and we routinely run in excess of 25"/sec on a 150/48 and white ink.  Maybe try a harder blade, keep your squeegee angle fairly high, around 80 degrees, but no less than 70 and as upright as possible and still deposit enough ink.  I think most people use too much angle, and I think 75-80 degrees is good for printing with speed. 

I don't know that I really have a "specialty" when it comes to this thing we do, but I put a lot of emphasis on print speed and have always worked to maximize opacity with minimal print strokes, and speed has a huge impact.  You have to have a shorter bodied white, you need open, thin thread mesh, sharp blades, upright (75-80 degrees is good, and even running at 85-88 is fine) and that's the main things you need.  I really want to do some research and get some real experience with our printing methods while running different brands of machinery.  I know they work well on the RPM and now on the G3, they work on an all-air diamondback but that's about the extent of the autos that I've tried these techniques on.  If I could spend a few hours, maybe a day on an MHM or Sroque that would be enough time to test our techniques but finding the time and finding participants isn't easy.  Everyone is busy and I can't travel very far to do this.  I know a guy that knows a few things about screen printing, as in he's pretty much the most knowledgeable guy in the world when it comes to textile screen printing, and he's had mixed results with high speed shearing with a few different brands of machinery but it's by no means a settled debate.  It just takes one little variable to throw off the entire system and I'd feel good about getting on some of those machines with our screens, our ink and our squeegees to see if in fact there is something to the theory pertaining to the different types of chopper/printing mechanics used on various autos.

I don't have any IC Legacy to see how short it is, but if it's long bodied, kind of like chewed bubble gum when pulling your spatula out then that would be the 1st place I looked.  Shorter body white will print much faster than long.  If you need more info in how to tell if you've got short, medium or long bodied white, let me know and I'll do a video of what I look for.

[mk162]

Alan, what short bodied ink are you running?  It seems the trend right now is long and frankly the inks I used to love I am not a huge fan of anymore.

[blue moon]

agreed with most that Alan said. . . One thing to be aware of, is that your MHM is not using rubber on the platens and that is making the print parameters different. What works on the GT3 might not work on the MHM. For us, we switched from printing at 2 (on MHM) to 6 by stirring + preheating the ink and preheating the platens. Add the higher angle and less pressure when doing this. Oh, and ditch the Legacy it is too long bodied to print fast. Try Joe's (Synergy) whites. The poly actually prints nicer than the cotton but is more expensive.

pierre

[blue moon]

Hi, I just made the connection that videos I had been watching on YouTube were from yourself, I was impressed at the speed you could run your print heads, and it has made me think I need to change the way I run my mhm x type plus.
Printing international coatings legacy white, print flash print through Newman screens with a 150s mesh the fastest I can run the print head is 0 to 1.5 out of a possible 10 on the mhm dial and still get the screen to clear, this prevents me going any faster than 520 print per hour.
Not sure what's holding me back?
Action double blade squeegee, with a pair triple ply blades, 50/90/50 (orange ones)
Ic legacy ink (we print a lot of poly cotton sweats, so easier to use just one white ink rather than also use a cotton white)
Off contact set to 4 for tees and 8 for sweats ( I believe that's mm so 8mm off contact for a sweat, it seems excessive, but any less and the screen will not clear with one stroke)
Open to suggestions of how I can improve speed?

If your off contact is 4mm for regular tees then I'd say that is a bit excessive, but probably not your issue unless your screens are of VERY high tension.  A 150/48 isn't capable of high tension so I don't think you have a problem there.  Our OC is usually around 1/16" to 1/8".  I've never used the Action double blade but I know enough about it to think that it's not your problem but you should be able to use a standard blade, 70 duro, and clear a 150/48 with one stroke at 15"/sec, and we routinely run in excess of 25"/sec on a 150/48 and white ink.  Maybe try a harder blade, keep your squeegee angle fairly high, around 80 degrees, but no less than 70 and as upright as possible and still deposit enough ink.  I think most people use too much angle, and I think 75-80 degrees is good for printing with speed. 

I don't know that I really have a "specialty" when it comes to this thing we do, but I put a lot of emphasis on print speed and have always worked to maximize opacity with minimal print strokes, and speed has a huge impact.  You have to have a shorter bodied white, you need open, thin thread mesh, sharp blades, upright (75-80 degrees is good, and even running at 85-88 is fine) and that's the main things you need.  I really want to do some research and get some real experience with our printing methods while running different brands of machinery.  I know they work well on the RPM and now on the G3, they work on an all-air diamondback but that's about the extent of the autos that I've tried these techniques on.  If I could spend a few hours, maybe a day on an MHM or Sroque that would be enough time to test our techniques but finding the time and finding participants isn't easy.  Everyone is busy and I can't travel very far to do this.  I know a guy that knows a few things about screen printing, as in he's pretty much the most knowledgeable guy in the world when it comes to textile screen printing, and he's had mixed results with high speed shearing with a few different brands of machinery but it's by no means a settled debate.  It just takes one little variable to throw off the entire system and I'd feel good about getting on some of those machines with our screens, our ink and our squeegees to see if in fact there is something to the theory pertaining to the different types of chopper/printing mechanics used on various autos.

I don't have any IC Legacy to see how short it is, but if it's long bodied, kind of like chewed bubble gum when pulling your spatula out then that would be the 1st place I looked.  Shorter body white will print much faster than long.  If you need more info in how to tell if you've got short, medium or long bodied white, let me know and I'll do a video of what I look for.

Alan,

ship the screens, ink and what ever else is needed up here than hop on a plane for a day. We'll get a good comparison between the presses and you'll get a chance to try it on both the MHM and ROQs.

pierre

[alan802]

Alan, what short bodied ink are you running?  It seems the trend right now is long and frankly the inks I used to love I am not a huge fan of anymore.

I'm using Joe's Synergy, and adding some Magic additive to it if I think it needs some adjustment.  It can be a little short at times, but the Magic will almost always get it right with very little (2% or less) mixed in.  I know most will want to print their white straight out of the bucket but I'll probably never do that, even with a perfect ink, I'll still find a way to adjust it.  I don't think most shops will need or want to put any additive in it, but I'm so damn picky and know exactly what it needs to feel and look like in the bucket and working with a spatula and will get it where I want it.

White ink is such a weird thing in our industry.  Over the years I've found some fantastic white inks and for the life of me I cannot fathom how/why other shops will hate it.  It never has made sense other than what some printers like in a white ink is similar to what humans look for and like in the opposite sex, or mate.  Some guys like blondes, some like big cabooses , and others simply like ugly women, for reasons all their own.  To this day I still love Rutland's Tidy white and QCM 158 even though they don't run well on an auto without lengthening the body but they print very fast and with very little pressure.  Synergy is very similar, but optically "whiter", cures at a lower temp, has very low after-flash tack, and is very capable of being changed slightly without losing it's foundation that made it great.

Pierre, one of these days, hopefully soon, I'll be able to do that.  Seems like every time I make plans to go somewhere for a day or two something happens.  I was still working on making it to the workshop this weekend, only to get a text this morning from one of my 3 production guys that quit.  Yes, he quit with no notice via text.  And we're getting busy again.  Another of my guys is waffling and seems like he's ready to leave as well.  He wants to be behind a desk and the work is starting to wear him down.  Now that one of the guys left, he'll probably be gone as well since he'll have to pick up some slack left.