Questions from a Discharge Rookie

[XG Print]

I have been printing strictly plastisol for about 8 years now and have never gotten into any waterbase or discharge printing but I am going to jump in next week.  Luckily my sister has an order that I can do that is a perfect discharge order.  Fluorescent Lime Green on dark t's.  Here are a few questions. As always I really appreciate everyone on this board's knowledge.  It has helped me out tremendously over the past couple of years as we grow and are nearing our first auto hopefully by summer. 
#1  With the discharge agent containing formaldehyde, is there a risk in doing kids shirts for a school with this method...Should I just send instructions to wash before wearing? 
#2  What mesh are most of you printing discharge through.  Looks like this first job is going to be a straight 1 color fluorescent green discharge print using either CCI disharge inks or the Sericol inks.  I am thinking about 200 mesh.
#3  In my research this week I have seen many Discharge mixing systems (Ryonet and CCI).  Is there one that is better than the other or more user friendly.  The CCI system seemed pretty cool but again I have 0 experience.  If there is another I should look at please let me know.
#4  I know this is hard to do but is there a formula you use as far as the amount of ink to prepare for a job.  Example...The first order I am doing has 77 shirts and is a 1 color full front but it is not full coverage.  12 x 14 print size.  I just know that I am pretty much throwing away the left over ink so I do not want to wast too much $$.

I gotta admit watching all the discharge videos on youtube make me wonder why I have been printing only plastisol for so long.     I really appreciated the charts for the different companies and the colors for discharge compatibility.  Really helped me out.
Thanks for the help guys.

[im_mcguire]

The following answers are coming from someone who does not run discharge, but has tried it a couple times...

#1  With the discharge agent containing formaldehyde, is there a risk in doing kids shirts for a school with this method...Should I just send instructions to wash before wearing?
        -You could always recommend washing before hand, but it wont always result in them actually following your instructions.   If you are concerned with it, wash them yourself, and dry on a low temp, or air dry cycle.

#2  What mesh are most of you printing discharge through.  Looks like this first job is going to be a straight 1 color fluorescent green discharge print using either CCI disharge inks or the Sericol inks.  I am thinking about 200 mesh.
        -I am sure 200 is fine, but we tend to run 160, sometimes 110.  You want the ink to penetrate through the shirt.

#3  In my research this week I have seen many Discharge mixing systems (Ryonet and CCI).  Is there one that is better than the other or more user friendly.  The CCI system seemed pretty cool but again I have 0 experience.  If there is another I should look at please let me know.
        -We have only used the CCI T-Charge mixing system, and it was great.  Easy to use, and colors came out spot on.  For fluorescent colors, you might look into their flo pigment, as this will garner brighter florescent color.

#4  I know this is hard to do but is there a formula you use as far as the amount of ink to prepare for a job.  Example...The first order I am doing has 77 shirts and is a 1 color full front but it is not full coverage.  12 x 14 print size.  I just know that I am pretty much throwing away the left over ink so I do not want to wast too much $$.
        -This one is difficult to judge until you run enough discharge to know what you really need.  The nice thing is, discharge is easy to mix.  What we did was mix a pint of ink, then if we needed more, then it was quick and easy to mix, and if we mixed too much, I adjust next time.

The only reason I dont run discharge, is because my shop is not ventilated well enough, and as the shirts come off of the belt, they are still discharging, and steaming.  This causes a lot of issues in the air.  We are working on fixing that, but for now, we choose to not run discharge, even though it would fix about 40% of problem shirts we run.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

[Inkworks]

I'll do my best to answer from my perspective as a novice. there are many here much more experienced in WB/DC than me, so take it for what it's worth

#1 depends on your health code down there, but properly cured discharge should have no active chemicals left in it.

#2 I'd go lower mesh count until you get a handle on it, 200@ mesh is probably okay, but not regular mesh i.m.o. You want the ink to penetrate the fabric, so a more open mesh helps drive the ink into the garment.

#3 Go with what has the best support for you locally, both CCI and Ryonet have been getting good reviews from people. I'm not sure what ink Ryonet is distributing now, but Green Galaxy has been getting great reviews lately too. We currently use matsui, and are happy with it.

#4 You'll get used to throwing away some ink, maybe add it into your set-up charges on WB/DC but for larger prints you need 200+ grams just to get a decent flood and keep the image wet, so odds are at least that much is going into your waste bucket at the end of the run.

Be ready to run, you don't want to be sitting around while your ink dries on the screen, add a little retarder, often a little water (after activating) move steady, watch for pinholes and leaks on the screen as you often won't know about them until they are out of the oven. Try running with very little or no off contact, and drive the ink into the garment. Make sure it's well dried and cured, if you have a small oven and it's not a huge job, a second run through the oven shouldn't hurt anything. Wash test some sample runs so you know what you are getting, and remember some colors do better with 3-4% activator instead of 6% (reds come to mind)

[Frog]

I'll do my best to answer from my perspective as a novice. there are many here much more experienced in WB/DC than me, so take it for what it's worth

#1 depends on your health code down there, but properly cured discharge should have no active chemicals left in it.

From an article in Printwear many years ago. I don't know if still accurate:

The European Union has a formaldehyde-exposure threshold of 75 ppm for apparel for small children and infants. A ZFS-discharged garment that has not been aired out for several days or washed after printing will not pass this test.

I have also heard that many contract printers whose clients sell for retail have their orders sent to bulk laundering services.

[XG Print]

Awesome!! Thanks for the info so far guys

[RICK STEFANICK]

-We print discharge everyday on kids shirts without issues for the resort market
- For you job I would run a 160 with a 70/90/70 or comparable.
- We use sericol flourecents..PERIOD but you may be able to get the CCI quicker for this one job. They are called d-flou
- On small orders (48 or less ) we activate a pint as you need enough to flood without stopping constantly. You will have loss but the time you save flashing, cleanup etc. will offset your cost.
- The CCI system is convenient, They have formulas and they are ready for use. We use base with the rutland WB pigments and rutland has damn good formulas for most pms colors.
- be sure to use a good DIAZO sensitized dual cure emulsion. we use Chromaline CP-TEX and autotype PLUS TX

[ZooCity]

My understanding is that properly cured DC should not have significant formaldehyde present in the finished garment.  But EU standards may be stricter than US.

All apparel should be washed before worn in any case and I can't imagine formaldehyde being present after wash.  My guess would be that the fabric itself contains more than your print might. 

Sericol's flos are the best, no contest.

Use the most open mesh you have that will hold the art. 

We use a plug in called Inkquest to preflight jobs in ai.  It will give you a sq inch area of the image.  With a little weighing and some formulas in our press sheet we can estimate usage.  At the end of the day, ink tech usually eyeballs it.