Trademark Infringement 12

[Dottonedan]

i see this a little differently.  contract customer is another business and he is reselling them to the end user.  I would have printed the job as the responsibility for copyright checking will lay on him and not the printer.    if there is an issue the lawyers will not know you printed the shirts they wil come after the dealership and him as they are the ones using the logo not you.

I can appreciate your chiming in on this greatly, and in no way want to dilute your enthusiasm. I will add my two cent and disagree on both parts. One, you will be held 50% responsible until proven otherwise.  two, Once printed, and found to be infringement (and if they want to), they will back track fact check till they find you. It's what they do.

With that said, It's only in rare situations that someone like a Disney will come after you. More so, A Nissan Co might be more aggressive in this area considering the partnership or lack there of with said mouse. Most times, Disney takes notice only (where there is an obvious large amounts of money being lost) or, a large amount of face being lost. They do like to "protect" their intelectual property more so than going after little businesses.

[aauusa]

her is an interesting link to this subject with a small twist,  a designer rather than a printer.   It looks like the best thing to do if you print these jobs would be to get a document where the customer assumes all liability for any cost if infringement does happen.  you will get sued but would be able to have them liable for any cost.   but you still end up in court either way.     

very good read

https://www.quora.com/Who-should-be-held-liable-if-a-logo-designer-unwittingly-creates-a-logo-for-a-client-that-is-later-found-to-infringe-another-designers-copyright

[Nation03]

Not to thread jack, but I'm in a similar situation.

A local school's drama club is doing their rendition of the Wizard of Oz. They drew a design (attached below), and wanted to see if it was doable. Before I send it out to get digitally drawn, should I just pass on this? Seems like a copy right issue. From what I researched, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" is public domain. But since this is based on the movie, it is still under copy right laws and the permission of MGM would be required.

Any ways I can work around this? If they were to put "Presented by [School Name]" Does that negate the copy right? I've seen play shirts for drama clubs that use the actual movie or books name/logo and always wondered what the process was in doing something like that.

[mk162]

MGM doesn't own it, Turner(Warner Bros.) does.  Ted Turner bought it in the 90's.  We printed a ton of shirts for the gift shop after the rights were acquired. 

Technically the books are public domain, the movie isn't.  And since those images are drawn from the movie, it might not be a good idea.

That being said, a lot of times the plays are purchased from a company that secures rights for marketing materials for the schools.  It's worth looking into.  We do some of these for other drama groups.

[Nation03]

Okay thanks for the info. We've done stuff for Summer Stage before, but I feel like that is a more well known drama group that has the right credentials. I'd rather 'play' it safe on this one and pass on the job unless the school can provide some sort of permissions to use the design. The other drawing they want me to use has the faces of all 4 characters.

If I were to have the school sign off on something that says they assume all the liability, should anything happen - would that provide any protection for me and my company or no matter what I assume part of the risk?

[Frog]

I seem to remember back in high school drama, that the scripts all needed to be approved licensed things as well. They may well all be part of a package that includes artwork for programs, posters, and fliers (and other advertising like shirts).

[Nation03]

Sounds logical. My client confirmed with me now that they did buy the rights to put on the show. She could be full of it, but after doing some other research, it looks like stuff like this is okay as long as it is for a school or nonprofit group. 

[Sbrem]

MGM doesn't own it, Turner(Warner Bros.) does.  Ted Turner bought it in the 90's.  We printed a ton of shirts for the gift shop after the rights were acquired. 

Technically the books are public domain, the movie isn't.  And since those images are drawn from the movie, it might not be a good idea.

That being said, a lot of times the plays are purchased from a company that secures rights for marketing materials for the schools.  It's worth looking into.  We do some of these for other drama groups.

What he said, we've done the same. In fact, with Aladdin, Jr., Annie, Jr. etc., they supply you with .eps files...

Steve

[mimosatexas]

My wife is a theater teacher and I print shirts for many of her plays and a bunch of the other theater teachers for other schools in the area.  They typically purchase the rights to produce the shows and those usually but not always include the rights to produce peripheral stuff like posters, programs, merchandise, etc.  Some of the plays cost a ton to license, and some are dirt cheap or even free (you just have to get permission).  The marketing material rights are usually pretty vague, but some of the licensing companies are giant twats about it, down to even prohibiting or charging a ton to perform certain songs or requiring you have them print your marketing materials.  I can't think of any teacher who has actually paid for those extras from those companies though, and usually they choose a different play vs paying more and dealing with the PITA companies.

There are ways around some of the more strict licenses as well, as usually they include language about profit sharing, and rarely does a play actually make more money than it costs to produce.  Typically they charge admission simply to cover the licensing costs (and aren't always successful) and have kids/parents pay some kind of fee to participate that covers additional costs for costumes, lighting, props, sets, etc but may include the shirt or a poster as a perk or "gift".  I would say typically money is straight up coming out of my wife's pocket to make a production happen, so it's not like they are making money for the school or growing their activity funds by putting on plays.

There is also the whole legal exemption for educational use when it comes to IP, and while I am not a lawyer, usually the schools have a lot of slack when it comes to producing marketing materials as they are seen as necessary for the production to happen and the production is an integral part of their education.  I know her school and district administrators are super aware of all of the licensing and legal hoops and she is constantly having to have things approved prior to production, so the chances of her and then me getting in some kind of legal trouble are pretty much slim to none...

[mimosatexas]

MGM doesn't own it, Turner(Warner Bros.) does.  Ted Turner bought it in the 90's.  We printed a ton of shirts for the gift shop after the rights were acquired. 

Technically the books are public domain, the movie isn't.  And since those images are drawn from the movie, it might not be a good idea.

That being said, a lot of times the plays are purchased from a company that secures rights for marketing materials for the schools.  It's worth looking into.  We do some of these for other drama groups.

What he said, we've done the same. In fact, with Aladdin, Jr., Annie, Jr. etc., they supply you with .eps files...

Steve

Yep.  Did a shirt for Annie Jr a few years back and was supplied with vector art straight from the licensing company if I recall.

[3Deep]

Same here we've done shirt's for plays from Disney movies and they sent us all vector files on cd with approval...trademarks can be a tricky thing, by the way how did that job turn out? I see Nissan and Star Wars are cross marking together should not have been a big deal unless it's a limited market for certain dealerships, but why it would be since Nissan is a big brand and I would think any Nissan dealership would fall under the same flagship and rules.

[Gilligan]

Hey, if Star Wars wants to make fake viral videos and BS emotional plays to promote their movie, morally I say F'em!  But legally... is a different story.

[Dottonedan]

Okay thanks for the info. We've done stuff for Summer Stage before, but I feel like that is a more well known drama group that has the right credentials. I'd rather 'play' it safe on this one and pass on the job unless the school can provide some sort of permissions to use the design. The other drawing they want me to use has the faces of all 4 characters.

If I were to have the school sign off on something that says they assume all the liability, should anything happen - would that provide any protection for me and my company or no matter what I assume part of the risk?

I don't know about your specific case, but school bands and the Drama dept will often purchase program kits (with marketing package includes). This contains art they can use for tees etc. This schools could have bought something like this...but maybe didn't like the art for tees or decided to try and be creative and do their own. You might look into that.  Still tho, a new design does not give you or them the rights to use it. It must be approved, (unless, when you purchase limited usage rights to do a program like WIZ, you might get that right to do your own.  Worth looking into.

[Nation03]

Okay thanks for the info. We've done stuff for Summer Stage before, but I feel like that is a more well known drama group that has the right credentials. I'd rather 'play' it safe on this one and pass on the job unless the school can provide some sort of permissions to use the design. The other drawing they want me to use has the faces of all 4 characters.

If I were to have the school sign off on something that says they assume all the liability, should anything happen - would that provide any protection for me and my company or no matter what I assume part of the risk?

Ah, that is interesting. She claims that they have a student draw the design every year for the play and never had an issue.


I don't know about your specific case, but school bands and the Drama dept will often purchase program kits (with marketing package includes). This contains art they can use for tees etc. This schools could have bought something like this...but maybe didn't like the art for tees or decided to try and be creative and do their own. You might look into that.  Still tho, a new design does not give you or them the rights to use it. It must be approved, (unless, when you purchase limited usage rights to do a program like WIZ, you might get that right to do your own.  Worth looking into.

[merchmonster]

sounds like they are trying to pressure you to take the job
but it's your job to protect your interests and livelihood
which means not taking suspect jobs like this
in the end maybe your contract customer takes the job somewhere else, even loses money on it
that's their responsibility anyways as a reseller the contract broker needs to know what the rules are.