ELT Extreme Low Temperature DIgital Black - underbases?

[Dottonedan]

We have a supplier that has suggested a ELT Extreme Low Temperature Digital Black ink as an underbase on bad bleeder Poly such as Comfort colors.
Cures at 270 out of the bucket and with soft hand added, it cures at 290.


It's not a black ink (not intended to be black in color), but has more of a charcoal color shift and is intended to absorb the migrating garment dye.


Anyone using this?  Thoughts?

[Frog]

I don't exactly understand the point of an underbase curing at 270 (or 290), while the top colors(s) will still need 310 or so.
It may still block just fine, but, as I said, the temp thing puzzles me.

[RICK STEFANICK]

Dan, we ran a gallon of it. Seriously man, It flashes faster but straight up grey bleed blocker will give you a killer result day in day out at curing temps as Andy questioned. Besides ONE STROKE is really proud of their products and with this product too expensive. Dave at BIMMRIDDER runs quite a bit of the bleed blocker I believe.

[Dottonedan]

I don't exactly understand the point of an underbase curing at 270 (or 290), while the top colors(s) will still need 310 or so.
It may still block just fine, but, as I said, the temp thing puzzles me.

Well, that's the thing. We use regular Ath inks right now and their 9One stroke) new ELT (series) of inks are said to be opaque (and soft hand), but chemically modified to cure at lower temps. So ALL of their inks would cure that low. It was designed for those in Athletic printing (such as Nike) who uses a lot of other inks that need to cure lower.
Now, I don't know how accurate those statements really are. Haven't tried it.

[mk162]

you can also use onestroke 357 as the UB, that stuff is crazy.

Onestroke also makes a white called CC white.  It's made for Comfort Colors...it's very nice as well.

[Colin]

We run the Digital Black and the ELT-S colors.

The Digital Black is far far better than the barrier grays on the market.  It will cure as low as 250.  We have used it as an underbase for the .357 poly white on san mar sport tek camo hex dye sub and it was the only way to COMPLETELTY stop the bleeding.  Cure was 325 with a one minute retain time on a sprint 2000HO.

The one stroke stuff is the real deal.

They will send out a 4 oz sample that is enough to do a few tests on some REALLY NASTY bleeders.

I would take them up on the offer.  See if the difference is worth the cost for your customers and your margins.

Internally - we had a couple jobs come in that the poly was utter crap.  Tested the ELT stuff on them after the job was rejected.  The ELT held up.  If we had used it from the start - the ink would have cost far far less than the replacement garments.

They also have mixing systems available.

[Prince Art]

Colin's info is better than mine, but for whatever it's worth- we have briefly tested Digital Black ub, and it held back the bleed on the maroon poly blend we were printing. However, our top white had to be thicker than usual to get enough opacity to cover the black. We haven't used this product enough to really know how to best utilize it.

My advice would be to expect to spend some time experimenting to get your print parameters right. The Digital Black may work for you, but don't expect it to be as straightforward as printing with a regular underbase.

Everybody may already know this, but the idea behind using all low-temp inks, such as the ELT series, is that the lower the cure temp, the lower the chance of sublimation/bleeding, as well as shrinking, etc. on tricky fabrics. (So, it's not just dye blocking, it's reducing the chance of the problem occurring.) If you're not printing all low-temp inks, I'm not sure how much value there is or isn't in some of them being low temp.

FYI- One Stroke sells ELT and ELT-S series. The "S" means it has stretch additive... which they will also sell you separately, so that you can add it to the straight ELT. Gives you a little more control, if you like. (Thus far, I've been impressed with the ELT-S, but haven't jumped into the whole system.)

[Frog]

I've probably said this 100 times since I started playing on industry forums, great products, but with all of their innovations and raves, it is mind boggling that they just don't sell in the West. (at least not in about 20 plus years since I used to get it locally in Oakland)
Just another instance where to some, perhaps, California just doesn't count as much?  LOL!

Though I am sure that they have buyers here who can always plan ahead and spring for the cost and time of standard shipping, overnighting a gallon of ink can really make its initial cost irrelevant. That's what soured me on One Stroke.

[Dottonedan]

I'm sure that California difference is about the regulations. CA has FAR more restrictions that all other states. WHY more than others and just them, I don't know. Disney tho, used CA as their stepping stone. If it past there first, it was ok everywhere else. LOL.  This goes back to (and before) the big scare of PVC and Phthalate free inks.

[Frog]

I'm sure that California difference is about the regulations. CA has FAR more restrictions that all other states. WHY more than others and just them, I don't know. Disney tho, used CA as their stepping stone. If it past there first, it was ok everywhere else. LOL.  This goes back to (and before) the big scare of PVC and Phthalate free inks.

Well then, even more reason for us to not use them. I'd hate to get in trouble or involve them in a hazardous material smuggling scheme, LOL!

No Dan, if that was the case, they couldn't ship them to us either. I don't think that they have distributors anywhere. The last time I looked into it, a year or two back, they were still only direct from them in Kentucky.

[Prince Art]

I don't think that they have distributors anywhere. The last time I looked into it, a year or two back, they were still only direct from them in Kentucky.

No distributors, shipping from one location only in KY is still correct.  It's 2 days to us, which not too bad, except when we need something for a tight turnaround. (That's for stock items, though - custom mixes sometimes add a day or two.) If I were on the west coast, they'd have to have something specific I really NEEDED to even consider them - certainly not for regular use stuff.

[Dottonedan]

Prince Art

With you using the Onestroke, have you added any clear base and run that ink as sim process?
How does that work out?

[mk162]

Other than price, distribution is my least favorite thing.  2 days to us is pushing it sometimes.  You get into those jobs where you realize that you picked the wrong ink or you need something that will perform better.

[Homer]

Does One Stroke still call you every other day with a sales pitch? I stopped using them years ago because every other time the phone rang, it was One Stroke. great products but it was too much.

[mk162]

Yup, 90% of the time I let it go to voicemail.  The great thing is I never need to call them...