Pre registration - accuracy question

[Maxie]

I am trying to fine tune my pre registration on my MHM.
I am getting the registration very close but not 100%.
I have to make minor adjustments.
Is it possible to get 100%?
Is it realistic to expect 100% registration in day to day production?

[Doug S]

I can't imagine 100%.  With the i image/triloc I'm at about 80% perfect registration but the other 20% there are minor adjustments.  I've tried everything imaginable to get it perfect every time but just can't quite get it.  I think in our case if we were to switch to 100% rollers "as long as they were maintained" we would be closer to 100% perfect due to the fact that there are only small areas of the frame corners to touch the triloc stops.  I only have 24 rollers that I use for higher end printing and out of the last 50 or so screens setup, I may have had to adjust 1 because it was like a 32nd off.

[bimmridder]

A pre registration system is just another part of another system. There are a few great pre registration systems. But unless your presses are in perfect parallel, your screens are within close tolerances of each other (relative to mesh counts in my opinion), your machine operators, both CTS and press are "On their game", your art is dead on, and some other things I am not mentioning, you won't always be on. I truly believe a pre registration system can only work as designed when all of the other systems and sub systems are dialed in tight as well. I'd LOVE to say that all of mine are, but that would be a lie. We are striving for that, but not there. And once there, it will be work to maintain the systems. And perhaps improve. Just my humble opinion.

[jsheridan]

Never going to get 100% on MHM as the image needs to be located to a place on the pallet vs being aligned to the pallet.

you can have the best screens in the world, won't fix the home issue with mhm registration.

Here's what you can do.. ditch all of your existing pin bars on the heads and replace them with the basic screen holder they offer. Replace the twist knobs with air locks, make your own tri-loc pallet, remove all the buttons, get an Iimage and enjoy the world of 3 point registration.

[Maxie]

John are you saying that the Triloc gives 100% registration?

[jsheridan]

no it doesn't

[T Shirt Farmer]

the image needs to be located to a place on the pallet vs being aligned to the pallet.

explain please

[jsheridan]

This should help

http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,18860.msg178494.html#msg178494

[Maxie]

What confused me was the video I saw of Dave setting up a print with the Trilock blindfolded.     I assume that it would be 100% all the time.
This morning I realigned my MHM and set up a six color print.     It was close, all the registration marks were touching each other but not 100% in register.      A few heads needed slight adjustment.
I am aiming for 100% registration but based on the replies to this post it is not possible.
I am using  film and sticking the film to the screen might not be 100% accurate.
Next week I'll move one screen from head to head to see if it's the MHM or the screens for whatever reason.
I don't know the Triloc system too well but I've seen a video where you stick the film onto a piece of film that has registration holes.    This seems to be a slow process, with the MHM you just stick the film directly to the screen if you have the registration system.   (I have a home made version).
I'm not sure how CTS changes this, are either of the systems 100% accurate using CTS?

[ebscreen]

The reality is that on the MHM's unless you have every head set to exact zero you won't be dead on.
I'd imagine that's where the 4000 machines excel, being able to mechanically zero rather than squinting at a
vernier scale.

After having used a reg system that places the burden on a pallet rather than the head I'd agree that the
former is the better. And I truly loved the MHM pin system. That said the MHM FPU is lightyears ahead of carrier sheets.
In fact what turned me off of ford blue to begin with was how many shops I visited and saw the tri-loc
jig under the dryer collecting lint. If screen printing has taught me one thing it's that the more difficult
you make a repetitive process the less likely you are to do it.


FWIW after a few modifications to our Roq PRU/reg pallet (we have an unholy union of MHM and Roq machines/screens)
we're getting perfect registration probably %98 of the time. And that's using MHM pinned screens, so I can only imagine
it would be better if we didn't have those dang pins.

That's using film. CTS eliminates the possibility of an operator not placing it correctly on the PRU.

[Maxie]

I'm booked to go to Long Beach in January, will be interesting to see the different systems.
I have two MHMs and want to get these working as well as possible, if I can learn something from another system that's great.

[jsheridan]

 if you're going to be there brother love to hang out with you for dinner

As far as trilox sitting under dryer is collecting dust as with any system they required an implementation and measurement to maintain its usage what happened is a lot of operators didn't like them and or the placement of the art was leniently done in the art room in the entire design of the system was to remove the set-up time for the machine and put it into the hands of the screen room Personnel whose labor is at a lower rate per hour than that of an operator and assistant and a catcher waiting to micro adjust a 12 color job.

[bimmridder]

If you see any more Tri-Loc pallets sitting around collecting dust, let me know. I could use another one or two. For 23x31

[Shanarchy]

FWIW after a few modifications to our Roq PRU/reg pallet (we have an unholy union of MHM and Roq machines/screens)
we're getting perfect registration probably %98 of the time.

What were the modifications? We get pretty close. Sometimes right on.

[DannyGruninger]

Roq + DTS = 99% accuracy

We go days, sometimes weeks without touching a micro. The entire process from screen making, emulsion, tension, mesh, blades, clamping, among much more play key roles in making the entire system work together. I've done a good amount of testing on all brands, 3 different pin systems, tri loc, etc and 3 point system on a roq is the quickest out of everything hands down. I'd put our current system up against anything out there for speed and accuracy.