Humidity and CTS 11/2

[DCSP John]

Do all CTS machines require a set humidity level
to prevent clogged heads? For both wax and ink?


-John

[Colin]

I spoke with Alex from M&R a few weeks ago and he said humidity levels are no issues - unless you are literally in a sauna....

I am paraphrasing - but my take away was theirs are just fine in almost all settings.

For the others - I dunno.

[ZooCity]

Hey, for wax it's not a huge issue unless it gets extremely low at which point I believe static becomes the issue more than clogging.  Our imaging area is about 25% rh and no clogging issues running wax in there.   

No clue on ink but I'm sure rh is more important there but with industrial printheads maybe not as big a deal as an epson?

[jvanick]

Hey, for wax it's not a huge issue unless it gets extremely low at which point I believe static becomes the issue more than clogging.  Our imaging area is about 25% rh and no clogging issues running wax in there.   

No clue on ink but I'm sure rh is more important there but with industrial printheads maybe not as big a deal as an epson?

our epson-based I-Image does just fine in our 20-25% (summer) 15-20% (winter) rh screen room.  no clogged heads, or dried up channels.  We do run a few drops of moistener/lubricant on the capping station tho, so this may be why ours is doing so well.

[ffokazak]

Our I-Image ST is not in a specifically designed hyperbolic chamber, and we have had very very issues at all with it. And none that I can say would be caused by humidity.

In Vancouver  it is 40-50% these days

[Alex M]

Typically all screens like 30-40% RH to dry in/at. This is truly ideal for most CTS machines as well.
Overly dry rooms will cause some static but this is not typically an issue for the machine unless it is excessive the larger issue is emulsion becomes brittle in dry environments which will cause premature breakdown on press.


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[ZooCity]

the larger issue is emulsion becomes brittle in dry environments which will cause premature breakdown on press.


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Very true.  We run a specific emulsion for this reason. 

Good to hear that ink units can tough it out in a variety of conditions and that extremes will impact other areas of the process first.

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[DCSP John]

Thanks for the feedback. Good to know.
The idea of building out a humidity controlled room
has been a big factor in my decision making... at least now we don't
have to plan  on moving the existing hot tub in our pre press room...

-John

[Dottonedan]

For any machine, wax or wet ink, the environment or humidity level does play a roll. No question about it. Too extreme in either direction and you will find issues in print quality of the machine but more so, issues with your emulsion. It's often, only when you introduce a new substrate (direct to emulsion) versus film, that current and pre existing issues can come to the surface.

Speaking only for any wet ink machines, there are different variables for different parts of the process.

SCREENS:
Emulsion needs to have enough time in medium/average humidity levels to dry properly. Some say this average is between 30-50% at room temperature. Others might say 25-40 and another group say 35-55. Lets call room temperature at 75 degrees.  For most all cases, I can say that I've seen all shops have decent operations in all of these ranges between 25 on up to 55.  Anything above or below this, provided more and more issue with the durability, image quality. If you change up the environments and shop scenarios, you get a wide variety of "results", but in general, I'd like to see screens dried for 1 hour minimum and 2 hours optimum in standard conditions. Also, used with in 1-2 days.  An old screen can be pre-exposed just slightly in various environments.

Now consider this.  The M&R I-Image in most all cases, can be adjusted or geared to be set up (in your shop) for your specific environment. The M&R machine is VERY versatile as it pertains to shop environment, but there are limitation under extremes.  This is why Mammoser can say (Humidity is not an issue).  Typically, in most cases, it's not an issue. If/when it is sn issue, either you or they, can adjust things to fit your needs.

It's been very common for shop owners to not want to change things up or buy things to improve their situation. They SHOULD want to, but often they don't know enough to want to. To many, it looks like an added expense that they don't need...to do things correctly.
A hygrometor, one or two more dehumidifiers, air conditioning, ventilation, drying cabinets, isolated rooms, better walls, cleaner rooms, fan removals, all can be one or more options to improve your environment.

As stated, humidity can typically not be an issue, (but it can be) in extreme scenarios.

Consider the 25-55% humidity a very, VERY big window. This is allowing for the various types of emulsion but in general, the higher the humidity, the longer you should permit your screens to dry so that you give them enough time/opportunity for the moisture to evaporate/dry. You can have your humidity well within the window, but perhaps you are using the screens (too fast) not providing them enough time to dry properly.

SHOP OPERATIONAL POINTS:
High humidity is a negative for a fast shop with a low number of screens in stock because they use them/turn them over too fast. What is fast?  An example of fast is coating a screen, forcing it to dry incorrectly and using it within 15-30 min of coating. The more dry the screen is, the better it exposes and the better it holds up in production. The faster the need for screens, the more screens you should have so that you can permit them to cycle through the process well. For DTS, the better the screen needs to be dried. The scenarios above usually uses these screens for orders of 12-100 shirts so they stand less of a chance of screen break down than others but may see other issues such as image quality, wash out etc. This would be a disaster with orders in the thousands.

A fast pace shop with low stock of screens can be done well...provided they force the screens to dry correctly. An isolated area/room for drying or cabinets are essential and you can dry the screens in higher heat. (Not too high) - 85-100 degrees. I've seen some shops dry in a cabinet at 140 degrees and leaning towards baking the top surface of the emulsion faster than it does dry the entire thickness.

Far too often, shops are not savvy enough in the screen room to know where they need to keep their environment and as a result they are all over the place in screen/emulsion/print issues.

How do screens that are not dry enough cause issues for the machine? Often in the past, or before your new DTS, using films was not that big of an issue.  It's not a problem for the machine as much as it's a problem for your emulsion, the ability to receive the ink properly and proper exposure. They feel dry to the touch but the slightest tack plays a roll on halftones and detail.

Tacky screens will not receive the ink (as well) as a dry screen. Once printed onto the screen, It tends to fatten or spread. This destroys halftone work or tight negative line detail. In extreme, will often fill in and blob small type. The first thought is that there is something wrong with the machine or print heads (today) since it printed just fine yesterday. The reality is, this particular set of screens didn't get dried well. In some odd cases, you may even be using an emulsion (type) that is prone to having a tacky characteristic to it already, even when it's properly cured. I've only seen 1-2 brands like this.

Once worse case scenario is a shop down in Florida that just had a rain storm come in 3 days prior. The building was old and whatever they used o do in that building, didn't permit too much air flow and the walls were built so that they didn't hold off moisture too well. The day after this rain storm, the customer called to complain of some issues (with their machine).  After 1 day of them trouble shooting in house, 1 day over the phone with M&R trouble shooting, I was assigned to go on site and review on the 3rd day. Once getting there, I found that the issue was not (on all screen) but only on the lower mesh screens. 110, 125 etc. The 230's and 305's no problems. They first did not connect the issues with the rain storm and their screens.

I found multiple variables (combined) for a worse case scenario that has caused their issues.
High humidity,
Colder temperatures
Low EOM on low mesh
Poor screen drying process.

It was only after using our own hygrometor (they didn't have one) that we found that the entire room was at 80% humidity and the room was in the cold range. Think wet and 60 degrees inside the room. Temperature also can affect the outcome and especially in these extreme scenarios.

So what was the resulting issue?  The ink didn't get to settle and dry well enough (on the screens surface) and as a result of yet another issue, the ink puddled into the valley of the mesh thread opening and in various areas, would creep into the adjacent valley, causing what looked like very rough edged images. It was spreading.

The above, was more noticeable on the low mesh and could not be used, while the same result was also on the high mesh, it was not (as noticeable) due to the higher mesh...and thinner coat of emulsion being ok on higher mesh. On the low mesh, they were coating (too little) and not creating a smooth surface. This allowed the image to break up and could not dry well or body up before spreading. It was the extreme moisture in the air/room that could not permit the screens to dry well nor the ink to settle well. Once settled onto the screen, it would also then would saturate into the screen, causing more and more fattening/spreading resulting in unrecognizable images.

So yea, Humidity does play a roll. So does temperature and so does rapid environmental changes.

[LoneWolf2]

instead of creating a new thread about this, figured i'd ask in here.
For a regular i-image ST, will it fit through a regular sized doorway? Need to roll it into my ink/screen room and it's got a 3' wide door I believe.

[Dottonedan]

Yes, All I-Image machines can be broken down into two parts.  It does add about 1 HR more on day one because they need to remove the table first, then take the body and table in separately.

No issue at all. Just have most of your work done ahead of time. E.g.  Remove from crate. Move close to door, clear the way/path to the final destination.

Have the Internet connection set up, the 220 connected, (this means having the 220 installed, and the power cable (male/female) connectors in place before tech gets there. You will find the 220 power cable inside the big box, and inside the keyboard box. One end is cut off. That is where (you) have your electrician connect the male/female adaptor. That then runs to your wall mount.  You might prefer to add about 3-5 more feet to the length so that you are not restricted to butt up against the wall. M&R's cable from the machine is only 3-4' that's just enough to butt up against the wall.

They need power first and foremost.

Note: you should have either a network savvy employee there or have a 3rd party IT guy there to connect the network. That can be on 2nd day but early. M&R does not get into that. They connect their programs (through your already set up network). If you don't have one set up in your building, it's possible to use a google drive or Dropbox, but those are not as sturdy and reliable. They break connection often and require re connecting hot folders etc. often.

[LoneWolf2]

Yes, All I-Image machines can be broken down into two parts.  It does add about 1 HR more on day one because they need to remove the table first, then take the body and table in separately.

No issue at all. Just have most of your work done ahead of time. E.g.  Remove from crate. Move close to door, clear the way/path to the final destination.

Have the Internet connection set up, the 220 connected, (this means having the 220 installed, and the power cable (male/female) connectors in place before tech gets there. You will find the 220 power cable inside the big box, and inside the keyboard box. One end is cut off. That is where (you) have your electrician connect the male/female adaptor. That then runs to your wall mount.  You might prefer to add about 3-5 more feet to the length so that you are not restricted to butt up against the wall. M&R's cable from the machine is only 3-4' that's just enough to butt up against the wall.

They need power first and foremost.

Note: you should have either a network savvy employee there or have a 3rd party IT guy there to connect the network. That can be on 2nd day but early. M&R does not get into that. They connect their programs (through your already set up network). If you don't have one set up in your building, it's possible to use a google drive or Dropbox, but those are not as sturdy and reliable. They break connection often and require re connecting hot folders etc. often.

Good deal! Just wanted to double check. It'll be going into a completely new/open ink and screen room off of the warehouse portion (with a 3' door connecting the spaces).