Legalities of printing Snap-On logo?

[Fresh Baked Printing]

The "©" isn't a requirement, is it?

[Dottonedan]

What a franchisee can do with a logo depends on the franchise agreement from the company that owns the logo......As a former claims adjuster who has been involved in a number of claims/lawsuits over logos, I have seen the pain caused by not following the rules......The risk factor may be low but there is still a risk factor....

You carry some valid points and good experience with you. Dooley noted.

[Dottonedan]

The "©" isn't a requirement, is it?

Since the last copyright law change (I think in the 80's) no, you do not "need' to have it on the art. It's protected form the git go of creations....but registering it...solidifies your claim.

[mooseman]

I had a customer who wanted me to embroider a private university logo on some jackets, pretty upscale university on long island I am told?


I told him most likely it was copied right and universities were very touchy about their logo, I told him no blaw blaw blaw....he said he was a big time alumni supporter and tight with the AD so it would not be a problem.
I told him to get me a release letter from the university, he said no problem, i will get the letter I am big time supporter BLAW BLAW BLAW.
I bet him free digitizing and free embroidery on his order if that letter cam back on university letterhead giving him transferrable release / use of the university logo.
NEVER SAW HIM AGAIN....guess he is still waiting on the letter 

you really have to be careful, a  cease and desist letter will not cost you a dime, if you have to defend yourself you automatically loose even if you win...why take the chance.

mooseman

[Nation03]

Good point. Seems like too little of a reward for the risk, even if it is low.

[Screened Gear]

Who has time to make sure your client has the right to use the logo they come in with. Why is it our responsibility to check into all of this? I am not sure what the law is but if the client tells you to put a logo on a shirt then they should be the one that is responsible for the copyright infringement. I know locally there was a store that was selling Sports uniforms that were made without the permission of the team. The store was fined and had all the merch taken. They never said if they went after the shop that created them or the sales guy they sold the store the shirts.

If I know the logo and I know they are selling them to make a profit I do ask for some proof they can print them. But I am sure I have printed tons of stuff not knowing. How many of your clients steal designs off the internet, Do you still print them? Where do we draw the line?

[inkman996]

I had a customer who wanted me to embroider a private university logo on some jackets, pretty upscale university on long island I am told?

Hofstra?

[royster13]

It does not matter whether or not you have the time.....If some one's intellectual property has been stolen, the owner will usually go after who ever they can to recover....If you are easiest and have the resources it becomes your problem.....Then you have to sue the folks that asked you in the 1st place to try and recover your losses.....And usually you can not recover much , if any....

[Evo]

Who has time to make sure your client has the right to use the logo they come in with. Why is it our responsibility to check into all of this?

Well, it's not your responsibility till the court says it is when you and your idiot client are getting sued by the first party.

I think it's a good idea that when in doubt, get a written statement from your client that they are allowed to exploit the logo or any other trademark materials. Then at least your off the hook to some degree if they get roasted in court.

[royster13]

To think that any kind of agreement from your client will save your ass is silly.....That is just a contractual agreement between you and your client and the IP owner is not a party and not bound by it.....It might be useful in suing your client if it gets that far.....

[Dottonedan]

Screengear,

All good questions and points.
In the end, you are responsible for what YOU print. Most often tho, the prosecutors will charge a SPLIT or equal responsibility and in the end, actually going after the throat of the one they can get the most from. The other (you) are just a casualty of war and will lose either way.  During my example below of the printer that got caught up in it all and lost everything (was more so due to the fact that he put EVERYTHING into this one order with us. So when that order dried up, so did he. On the flip side, it could have and probably also did get sued (as a group law suit) between those who created the art (the company I worked for) and those who manufactured the print, being this dye house who also printed the tees. In BIG cases like that one, They first go after everyone involved first and then figure out if they can actually get you for anything later. By the time you've fought to defend yourself, you've already lost.

Now, It's a legal fact that if YOU are a printer and you hire Tommy Designer to do a tee for you, (and he uses art that belongs to someone else (e.g.) from the internet) to create that art for you, BOTH of you are legally responsible. You can be sued just as much as the artist can (UNLESS) you have them sign something before hand (like a contract) that states that the artist being hired for freelance is required to supply art that is solely and originally created by the artist and is in no way owned by anyone else.

This, is THE process in witch you can eliminate your potential of losing your case in a situation like that. It's not 100% sure fire prevention, but it's abut the main way.  It  takes the guilt away from you and shows your intentions to cover Due diligence.
It puts it back on the artist. This is the same for a customer. Lets say a customer comes in and wants you to print a logo on a tee that belongs to someone else and you know it. (LIKE when someone wants you to copy another previously printed tee shirt. That aint right. If it's anything other than a logo, it's been "created" by another printer who more than likely owns the rights to that art but the customer couldn't get the art file or permission. You need to do Due diligence and do all that you can within reason to make sure you are doing the legal thing.

[Dottonedan]

To think that any kind of agreement from your client will save your ass is silly.....That is just a contractual agreement between you and your client and the IP owner is not a party and not bound by it.....It might be useful in suing your client if it gets that far.....

It is silly in some cases and not silly in others. Most times, It's your ONLY way. For example.

It's silly if you have a Biker drive up and shows you his paper that says "its ok" and wants shirts done with the GANG name and having Harley-Davidson on it as well.

It's not so silly when you have a customer that has been in the industry trade mags for a few years and all they show is Universal Studios tee shirts in every PrintWear Mag article and you walk into their shop and all they have on the walls are Universal Studios samples as far as the eye can see. Then they want to sub contract some printing out to you and send you a letter saying that they are licensed by Universal, that should be good. Now, In doing due diligence, technically, you should make sure that you get a copy of his/her licence that they have to print these shirts. In these cases, they will have an actual print out of the license agreement. It's a 1 page excerpt of about at least a 15 page contract.

[royster13]

Most lawsuits involving trademark infringement will be settled on the basis of joint and severally liability....To cut to the chase, that means to collect their they can go after all parties or 1 party.....They usually go after whoever is easiest to reach....

[prozyan]

Good point. Seems like too little of a reward for the risk, even if it is low.

I'd do some personal research into copyright law in your spare time.  This instance doesn't even come close to any type of violation.

You honestly have more risk printing Little League shirts/jerseys than you do here.

[Homer]

pfft. . send me the job if you don't want it. . .I'll dance.  .damn people want to sue everyone for everything these days. . . tighten up the skirt and cash the damn check. . .you have nothing to fear but being hungry and cold.