Ink Cost for i-Image STE

[Shanarchy]

If you have funds available that wouldn't steal from what you see as a more critical purchase (like a first auto, etc) and would like the benefits, just get a CTS.

I really want to. I just don't know if I can legitimately justify it. So probably more of dreaming aloud.

Does the i-Image S have a built in Starlight?

[screenprintguy]

While this conversation about consumable cost per screen is informative it is totally irrelevant to the decision to implement and/or operate a CTS unit.

When talking pennies per unit the ink cost is just not a factor when compared to the saved time and improved productivity CTS provides.

My 2 cents...

Dead on , Dead on, Dead on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could care less about ink cost and it goes so far it is ridiculous. I've said it a million times, it's hard to conceive what you are missing by not going CTS, it will literally help your business flow and grow. ROI on a CTS is never going to make sense until you have it in your production flow and then it aaaalllllllllllllll makes sense!!!!

[ZooCity]

If you have funds available that wouldn't steal from what you see as a more critical purchase (like a first auto, etc) and would like the benefits, just get a CTS.

I really want to. I just don't know if I can legitimately justify it. So probably more of dreaming aloud.

Does the i-Image S have a built in Starlight?

I think it get's easier when the cost of a CTS isn't 60k plus. 

That was a little hard for us as you can do a lot in a shop with 60k.   But we were done with Epson printers, film, folders, carrier sheets, pin locks and insanely slow setups. These were holding us back as a group.  Setups were identified as our #1 cash drain since it runs up payroll and runs down production.  The payroll and lost production cost of slow setups for us over even a year or two will far outweigh the 60k investment.  Everyone is different though, some shops kill it with setups using film imaged screens. 

If you're on the fence then sit tight on it and get ready.  You can net many of the benefits of a CTS workflow with film by simply gearing your workflow as you would for CTS.   We did that a couple years back and it was a very easy transition into CTS from film because of it and it really tightened things up in the interim.   

You're running an s.roque pru right?  I've heard great things about them.

[jvanick]

If you have funds available that wouldn't steal from what you see as a more critical purchase (like a first auto, etc) and would like the benefits, just get a CTS.

I really want to. I just don't know if I can legitimately justify it. So probably more of dreaming aloud.

Does the i-Image S have a built in Starlight?

no built in starlight, but quite honestly, a built-in exposure on a CTS is a waste..

pull that screen out of the CTS, put it on an exposure unit, and start imaging the next screen.

especially on the I-Image S which is slower than a 1-head I-Image ST due to either software limits to as not compete with the I-Image ST -OR- due to the gantry design... (thinking more software limited tho)... but even still, if you're 100+ screens a day on the unit, you can afford to have a 2nd one and have redundancy.

if you do your production loop correctly, you can be imaging one, while one is exposing, while one is soaking, while one is being rinsed out all with 1 person.. if you got really crazy, you get an autocoater, and have the same person coating.

[ZooCity]

jvanick nailed it. 

We have very long expo times as we use diazo added emulsions.  This talk of LED being super fast does not apply at all to our screens and an imaging + expose unit would not be fast enough for us in most situations. 

The flow you can get going in your screen room with CTS is fantastic

[ffokazak]

I remember when I was deciding whether or not it was worth it... All of the pro's would say "If I had to go back to film,I would quit".

If anyone asks me now, I would say exactly that!

[SI]

What is the general screen/week volume a shop should be doing to consider a $30K CTS such as the i-image s?

I know we will be nowhere close to that mark yet, but just curious at what point this should be considered.

We are doing around 70-100 screens a week and bought the old 1st gen I-screen.  It's horribly slow but honestly not much slower than printing film was.  But when you figure in the total handling time of film to carrier sheets, to carrying the film with the screen to expo unit, then de-taping and cataloging film afterwards, and the fact the film for us anyway, always seemed to be off as the roll got closer to the center.  We had a hard time lining up screens because the film wouldn't always be perfect on multi color jobs, lots of time wasted on setups.

  I think our CTS has some issues as around 1 out of 10 screens might be 1/16-1/18" off in one direction, but we have ran Many 6+ color jobs where we didn't touch a micro.  When those happen, or when you do a 8 or more color job where you only have to adjust one screen, the cost no matter what it is, will feel justified.  If 30k is out of your budget look around for an older I-screen or 1st gen i-image, I know of at least one person who might be interested in selling his.  I absolutely loathe the idea of using film ever again,  Even if i am re-running a job i have film for, I will print it on CTS instead as i know the setup time on press will be so much faster that it is still a time savings. 

[Rockers]

What is the general screen/week volume a shop should be doing to consider a $30K CTS such as the i-image s?

I know we will be nowhere close to that mark yet, but just curious at what point this should be considered.

We are doing around 70-100 screens a week and bought the old 1st gen I-screen.  It's horribly slow but honestly not much slower than printing film was.  But when you figure in the total handling time of film to carrier sheets, to carrying the film with the screen to expo unit, then de-taping and cataloging film afterwards, and the fact the film for us anyway, always seemed to be off as the roll got closer to the center.  We had a hard time lining up screens because the film wouldn't always be perfect on multi color jobs, lots of time wasted on setups.

  I think our CTS has some issues as around 1 out of 10 screens might be 1/16-1/18" off in one direction, but we have ran Many 6+ color jobs where we didn't touch a micro.  When those happen, or when you do a 8 or more color job where you only have to adjust one screen, the cost no matter what it is, will feel justified.  If 30k is out of your budget look around for an older I-screen or 1st gen i-image, I know of at least one person who might be interested in selling his.  I absolutely loathe the idea of using film ever again,  Even if i am re-running a job i have film for, I will print it on CTS instead as i know the setup time on press will be so much faster that it is still a time savings.

You have absolutely convinced me now that this will  be a very good purchase. I did not take the de-taping into account. And you are right that`s one of the most time wasting steps. And honestly we are out of space for artwork files.

[Dottonedan]

What is the general screen/week volume a shop should be doing to consider a $30K CTS such as the i-image s?

I know we will be nowhere close to that mark yet, but just curious at what point this should be considered.

We are doing around 70-100 screens a week and bought the old 1st gen I-screen.  It's horribly slow but honestly not much slower than printing film was.  But when you figure in the total handling time of film to carrier sheets, to carrying the film with the screen to expo unit, then de-taping and cataloging film afterwards, and the fact the film for us anyway, always seemed to be off as the roll got closer to the center.  We had a hard time lining up screens because the film wouldn't always be perfect on multi color jobs, lots of time wasted on setups.

  I think our CTS has some issues as around 1 out of 10 screens might be 1/16-1/18" off in one direction, but we have ran Many 6+ color jobs where we didn't touch a micro.  When those happen, or when you do a 8 or more color job where you only have to adjust one screen, the cost no matter what it is, will feel justified.  If 30k is out of your budget look around for an older I-screen or 1st gen i-image, I know of at least one person who might be interested in selling his.  I absolutely loathe the idea of using film ever again,  Even if i am re-running a job i have film for, I will print it on CTS instead as i know the setup time on press will be so much faster that it is still a time savings.

I don't know about I-Screens, but if using an ST or above, the 1 screen being off is not from the machine. It's from the loader.

When you find one that is off, clean the ink out of it, being it back and print the image on it again. Then you should see that it prints in a different location (the correct location) when loaded the 2nd time correctly.

[244]

What is the general screen/week volume a shop should be doing to consider a $30K CTS such as the i-image s?

I know we will be nowhere close to that mark yet, but just curious at what point this should be considered.

We are doing around 70-100 screens a week and bought the old 1st gen I-screen.  It's horribly slow but honestly not much slower than printing film was.  But when you figure in the total handling time of film to carrier sheets, to carrying the film with the screen to expo unit, then de-taping and cataloging film afterwards, and the fact the film for us anyway, always seemed to be off as the roll got closer to the center.  We had a hard time lining up screens because the film wouldn't always be perfect on multi color jobs, lots of time wasted on setups.

  I think our CTS has some issues as around 1 out of 10 screens might be 1/16-1/18" off in one direction, but we have ran Many 6+ color jobs where we didn't touch a micro.  When those happen, or when you do a 8 or more color job where you only have to adjust one screen, the cost no matter what it is, will feel justified.  If 30k is out of your budget look around for an older I-screen or 1st gen i-image, I know of at least one person who might be interested in selling his.  I absolutely loathe the idea of using film ever again,  Even if i am re-running a job i have film for, I will print it on CTS instead as i know the setup time on press will be so much faster that it is still a time savings.

I don't know about I-Screens, but if using an ST or above, the 1 screen being off is not from the machine. It's from the loader.

When you find one that is off, clean the ink out of it, being it back and print the image on it again. Then you should see that it prints in a different location (the correct location) when loaded the 2nd time correctly.

which is now corrected with the tri sync feature.

[bimmridder]

Which I hope I can retro fit to my machine. My screen guy has good days and bad days. This feature will eliminate the excuses.

[Dottonedan]

Some of you have said there is no need (a waste) for exposing on the machine.

It may very well be correct for you, ...but the blanket statement is incorrect.
While it doesn't apply to you, it does apply to the other 70-80% of the industry that is not doing waterbase/dishcarge and lets face it, the majority of those have the idea that FASTER is better so they use the fastest emulsion (and for what they do), it's a good choice.   Many are doing 12-48 shirts but 50 -100 orders of those a day.

Where it does make sense for all shops is if all shops had an exposure unit where you can expose 4 up at a time.
I've seen some shops expose 6-8 at a time.

[jvanick]

What is the general screen/week volume a shop should be doing to consider a $30K CTS such as the i-image s?

I know we will be nowhere close to that mark yet, but just curious at what point this should be considered.

We are doing around 70-100 screens a week and bought the old 1st gen I-screen.  It's horribly slow but honestly not much slower than printing film was.  But when you figure in the total handling time of film to carrier sheets, to carrying the film with the screen to expo unit, then de-taping and cataloging film afterwards, and the fact the film for us anyway, always seemed to be off as the roll got closer to the center.  We had a hard time lining up screens because the film wouldn't always be perfect on multi color jobs, lots of time wasted on setups.

  I think our CTS has some issues as around 1 out of 10 screens might be 1/16-1/18" off in one direction, but we have ran Many 6+ color jobs where we didn't touch a micro.  When those happen, or when you do a 8 or more color job where you only have to adjust one screen, the cost no matter what it is, will feel justified.  If 30k is out of your budget look around for an older I-screen or 1st gen i-image, I know of at least one person who might be interested in selling his.  I absolutely loathe the idea of using film ever again,  Even if i am re-running a job i have film for, I will print it on CTS instead as i know the setup time on press will be so much faster that it is still a time savings.

I don't know about I-Screens, but if using an ST or above, the 1 screen being off is not from the machine. It's from the loader.

When you find one that is off, clean the ink out of it, being it back and print the image on it again. Then you should see that it prints in a different location (the correct location) when loaded the 2nd time correctly.

which is now corrected with the tri sync feature.

I saw this at SGIA and it's WAY cool.  I am going to create my own version of this to work on our old I-Image rocket launcher.

(we have the same problem here with our screen girl not confirming the screen is fully hitting all the stops)...

[Shanarchy]

My (very uneducated) thoughts as a very small shop trying to find a way to justify CTS.

I will probably never go through $30K in film and extra ink costs in my lifetime. Those savings are not something I will even consider trying to add up. The part that has me interested as a VERY small (2 person shop) is the much needed time savings in other spots. We are constantly multi-tasking and if the press isn't printing, we're not making money.

In the time it takes me to get the film set to print with CTS, we are now doing our current steps of printing the film, lining the film up to the screen on our pre-reg unit, and then placing the screen in the exposure unit. We do not do that many screens per day here, so I would use the built in exposure unit and waiting another minute before we can do our next screen is more convenient to me than popping it on a stand alone exposure unit.

The biggest draw to me would be if we could pop screens on press in perfect registration every time. Set up times kill us. We are embarrassingly slow.

If no scotch tape has to be used on reg marks/pin holes that would save us a lot of time in reclaim. Not sure if we should be using different tape, but it takes us forever to get it off. We even switched to removable scotch tape and it doesn't make a difference.

For me it's just a question of if we can truly justify $30K for this with the small volume of business we do. But it is at the top of the list of things that we are currently dreaming about.

[bimmridder]

Jason, I haven't hand coated a screen in ten years. Your comment about having a coating machine so you can image, expose, and coat at the same time is certainly true. BUT...... even if you are hand coating, would you still be able to coat and image at the same time? Just not as many screens getting coated as easily? Seems to me like you could still be saving time? I don't know.