S Mesh - Do you have it?

[Screen Dan]

besides a few dozen low mesh specialty screens for HD we use only 2 counts of SmartMesh...180-S and 225-T.  Probably about 550 or so in rotation and I think that roughly 1/8th of those are base plates.

I would love to use 225-S, but I have no control over the shop and how they handle the screens...and they aren't very kind to them. 

We were all S-Mesh all around but the rapid turnover on the 225-S was impossible to keep up with.  I changed to 225-T and was able to keep running at 55LPI standard and even some of the 60LPI RIPs work with no apparent interference patterns developing...and our screens aren't constantly dying on us.

There was a time where we used 200-S for base plates and 300-HD...we rarely ever had popped screens.  those 300-HD are amazing.  You could bring them right up to 35n, have a big hole in one spot and still retension it repeatedly.

Then the phthalate free inks came in and we had to adjust.

[inkstain]

Aloha Everyone!
A while back (few yrs ago) I got some S Mesh for my rollers.  They worked awesome for a while then eventually they went bye bye due to breakage (had them on rollers).  I'm considering getting some on aluminum frames soon but had some questions.
What mesh count should I get for underbase?
What mesh count for PFP?
What mesh count for top colors?
I'm guessing I get them from Spot Color as they are in California as I'm located in Hawaii and shipping is an arm and two legs

Thanks guys!

[Inkworks]

Slowly switching over to 100% S and LX mesh. Once you get the guys used to handling it without breaking it, there is no reason not too, and plenty of reasons to make the switch.

[Dottonedan]

Opacity, to me, = Heavier ink lay down. So, that goes against my idea of what I want out of the print.


I want BRIGHT coverage...with not so much ink volume/thickness. Can it be done? Can the two go together? I assume at that point, you're talking INK TYPE.

[Northland]

I coat all my s-mesh 1X1.... so, the ink layer is pretty thin.
Because the ink clears the mesh easily, you can apply less pressure and avoid driving the ink too deep into the garment.

[mimosatexas]

I coat all my s-mesh 1X1.... so, the ink layer is pretty thin.
Because the ink clears the mesh easily, you can apply less pressure and avoid driving the ink too deep into the garment.

This exactly.  Opacity comes from the ink not needing to be driven into the fabric with S-mesh, so you can use less ink and get a brighter and more opaque print with S-mesh.

[jvanick]

Opacity, to me, = Heavier ink lay down. So, that goes against my idea of what I want out of the print.


I want BRIGHT coverage...with not so much ink volume/thickness. Can it be done? Can the two go together? I assume at that point, you're talking INK TYPE.

I can nearly guarantee you that a properly coated thin thread screen will not only lay down LESS ink than a thick thread mesh of the same count, but properly printed it will have LESS hand and MORE opacity.

[cbjamel]

Aloha Everyone!
A while back (few yrs ago) I got some S Mesh for my rollers.  They worked awesome for a while then eventually they went bye bye due to breakage (had them on rollers).  I'm considering getting some on aluminum frames soon but had some questions.
What mesh count should I get for underbase?
What mesh count for PFP?
What mesh count for top colors?
I'm guessing I get them from Spot Color as they are in California as I'm located in Hawaii and shipping is an arm and two legs

Thanks guys!

Al @ murkami will sell direct from California.
Shane

contact info  :
Alan Buffington
Technical Sales
MURAKAMI SCREEN USA
745 Monterey Pass Rd.
Monterey Park, CA
91754
800.562.3534
323.980.0662 ext 118
323.697.4334 cell

[Inkworks]

Opacity, to me, = Heavier ink lay down. So, that goes against my idea of what I want out of the print.


I want BRIGHT coverage...with not so much ink volume/thickness. Can it be done? Can the two go together? I assume at that point, you're talking INK TYPE.

S-mesh puts down a thinner coat of ink, but with less mesh interference and often better fiber matte-down, so opacity can actually be less ink laid down, better coverage and less fibrillation, which translates to better hand and often a longer lasting print more resistant to cracking from over-drying in the home washer/dryer.

[Nation03]

Been slowly adding more S-Thread statics. Ordered a few from river city that were pretty good and they are holding up well. Then ordered a few more from spot color with the permanent blockout and those bad boys are a dream. Holding pretty well at 20ish newtons. I'm also becoming a big fan of this whole, no tape situation, with the exception for when I need to gang multiple images on a screen. Otherwise I really love the blockout and caulking combo spot color uses. Makes the frames feel more durable.

I definitely need to fine tune how I handle and reclaim them because I still get a few nicks here and there in the mesh, but nothing that has made them unusable yet. I think I need to avoid scrub pads or use something smoother in the reclaim process.

I don't see myself getting anything other then S-Mesh. 150, 180, and 225 pretty much handle any job I throw at it so it's nice not having to get a ton of different mesh counts.

[starchild]

Mesh should be chosen for desired deposit not opacity.. The mesh should set the thickness of the substance (even if it's mayonnaise)..

At what thickness in mils- would my white underbase ink printed on a dark shirt, move from 0% (black)  to 85% (white) luminosity? And I want it to be *bright-er..

Apparently, an ink's optical properties contains an L* a* B* specification:

L*  informs you- that if you print with with a 150 mesh that will deposit at a specific thickness, the opacity of the ink will be between 0% transparent to 100% opaque..

(Yes so my ink gave me 73% opacity using the deposit of my 150 mesh but it's not popping)

B* informs you where in the color spectrum of between 100% yellow on one end to 100% blue on the other end does my white ink exist- the white ink pigments are made with titanium oxide which has a yellow cast so the ink needs some -blue- to negate the yellowness to make it pop (sunset vs miday sky in kelvins color tempreture) The more blue tint to the white ink, the brighter it will appear..

a* informs you of the red to green that the white ink contains- so same as above but does not interfere with brightness..

So a white underbase ink with brightness in mind would be a blueish green or a blueish red.. And the opacity was dictated by the thickness the mesh deposited..




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[spotcolorsupply]

I definitely need to fine tune how I handle and reclaim them because I still get a few nicks here and there in the mesh, but nothing that has made them unusable yet. I think I need to avoid scrub pads or use something smoother in the reclaim process.

Murakami reccomends sponges instead of scrub pads for reclaim.

[alan802]

I thought I posted this yesterday in response to Dan's post about opacity but I got an email yesterday afternoon that was quite distracting from the forum chatter.  Anyway, Starchild touched on this much more eloquently than I can but I'll try to explain it in my terms which I hope don't contradict anything but since my knowledge level isn't up there I hope I explain it correctly.  Depending on your ink, and each ink is different, it takes a certain mil of ink deposit to reach the desired opacity, which is also subjective, but not all ink deposits are the same in that the ink layer put down has other variables that will factor in to the appearance of opacity, like Star mentioned with the L and B reference.  In my opinion, if one is to always go back to the basics of plastisol printing and 1) use a mesh that will allow the absolute least amount of pressure to print 2) without depositing too thick of a layer of ink (I guess 1 and 2 go together but oh well) 3) Then allowing the ink to sit on top of the garment 4) then maximum opacity/mil can be achieved.  I can say that our goal is to reach the maximum opacity level with the thinnest layer of ink possible (opacity per mil, a ghetto reference, but a ratio that is more complicated than that but that's how I describe it) and we make it a point to do all of those things that let us achieve that goal.  Most important of "those things" is to choose a mesh count that will allow the ink to shear with minimal pressure and also at a fast pace.  If you choose a mesh that requires 50psi with a sharp blade then you'll have to PFPF to get that ink to eventually be on top of the shirt and reach the desired level of opacity. 

But, to my amazement over all these years, I've heard many complaints about a print not being bright enough or not having enough POP, yet I can't think of a single time where a customer has complained that their print is too thick.  I don't understand that but maybe it's because every customer of ours is monolithic in what they are looking for in their print and that is the color.  I'm constantly trying to get thinner and thinner prints and maintain opacity and thin thread has helped us more than any other tool.  And one thing to watch out for is often times a print where 95% of the ink is on top of the garment, can feel like it's thicker than a shirt with significantly more ink deposit but half of the ink being inside the shirt.  The print with the ink on top will feel much softer, have more opacity, but may also feel like the thicker ink deposit when it's really not.

[Gilligan]

Any updates on that email?

[bimmridder]

Haven't heard anything today, but keep him in your thoughts and prayers?