Emulsion thickness meter gauge?

[Dottonedan]

Who is selling a decent midrange thickness gauge?

[ZooCity]

Saati

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[Dottonedan]

Thanks!  Will check them out.  All distributors can get you one but was wanting feedback on what's better than others. What not to get, etc.

Thanks
Dan

[Atownsend]

I was just researching these yesterday. And I came across this gauge. I'm sure its manufactured in China so its probably not as nice or accurate as a positector 6000, but for $100 I might chance it. I just wish it would interface with OSX. It says the range is 0 ~ 1250 μm / 0 ~ 50 mil. Is this the proper range for measuring EOM? I haven't used one of these before, but I think it would work well since you can measure non ferrous materials.

[jvanick]

We have and use that same cheap one.  I have also used the saati/magestic one, on the same screens.

While the thickness didn't always match (sometimes 3 or 4 microns different between the 2 meters), the percentage when you did the math always did.

Nice thing about the saati one is that it does the calculations for you.

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[Atownsend]

We have and use that same cheap one.  I have also used the saati/magestic one, on the same screens.

While the thickness didn't always match (sometimes 3 or 4 microns different between the 2 meters), the percentage when you did the math always did.

Nice thing about the saati one is that it does the calculations for you.

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Awesome! I can handle a bit of math. Thanks for the feedback on this! EOM is not something I have measured before, other than "feel", so this is definitely a step up at my shop.

[Dottonedan]

Just to give you an idea of how EOM can be greatly different from screen to screen, we have a guy (somewhat of an older guy) but he's been doing the coating for near 6 years.

He coated two different 156 screens with both having a coating of 3/2 and a face coat.
Washed them out, and one had a very deep lip on the edge of the image while the other (still thicker than normal( but not nearly as thick as the other.

When you coat to extremes, you see and feel clear evidence how a manual coat technique is flawed.
When you are doing a 1-1 or 2-1  everything "looks" consistent.  There is a difference tho. Pretty difficult to keep "very consistent" from screen 1 to screen 20 and have them all the same. Every step needs to feel and be the same.

Still tho, the thicker is better for those low mesh bases.

[jvanick]

Or just get an auto coater:)  every one of our 150/48 screens is now 16 to 17% EOM.  Made a difference on press as well.  Shocking how just a 5% variance would change a job setup time.

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[jsheridan]

Old guy doing a 3-2 coat why am I not surprised to hear stuff like that.

Let me guess that's the way he's always done it

[alan802]

I bet that screen is 100% EOMR, or more.  Sounds like you need to show them a better way to coat screens Dan.

[Dottonedan]

I bet that screen is 100% EOMR, or more.  Sounds like you need to show them a better way to coat screens Dan.

What do you mean by EOM (R) or more?   What is R?

[Gilligan]

I'm gonna assume RATIO.

[alan802]

Yes, ratio.  It's not something that is 100% agreed on but I can say that over the years we've been all over the scale from 5% EOMR to 100% and the guys that know more about it than I do recommend an EOMR of 15-20%.  What I've found is there can be benefits (depending on the art) to a 30-40% EOMR but typically you're wasting emulsion and the benefits quickly get overshadowed by the effort/amount of emulsion on the screen once you get above 20%.  If someone is coating with the right pressure and speed, a 3/2 with the round edge of a common scoop coater is going to put down a crap load of emulsion.  If I tried, I could keep the EOM low with a 3/2 by doing more scraping than coating. 

Then, the mesh count plays a HUGE role in how a coating affects the EOM.  Just like ink going through a screen, emulsion is the same thing.  Thick threads with small openings take more coats of emulsion to build EOM if coating using a regular technique.  Thin thread mesh wins hands down in this category as well and most emulsions these days can get to a 15-20% EOMR with a 1/1.  Anything more than that (again, MOST thin thread mesh counts, not ALL) you're wasting time and emulsion unless it's a very specific need or technique that requires a special ink deposit. 

As a very general rule, we shoot for 12-15%, erroring low if possible, for higher mesh counts.  Lower mesh counts we shoot for 20%.  Only when we get up to a 280 do we have to do more than one coat on the shirt side to get a glisten on the squeegee side but with the right emulsion and technique I can get a good stencil on a 305 with a 1/1.

[Dottonedan]

The whole goal is to get the ideal % on each mesh.  Won't really matter how you get there. 1:1. 2:1. 3:2. Etc.   One of our members here coats 1 side only. Apparently he does it in such a way to get the glisten and the amount needed.

I've seen the better results of more coats and a face coat but I have no idea yet just what the EOM is.
It just works better so far. We will know soon.