Old auto machine conversions

[Wildcard]

Has anyone here done a V-squeegee to chopper conversion? With a kit or DIY?
I'm thinking about it but wondering if it's possible with my machine.
If anyone has pictures of how a V has been converted then please could you post them?

The other think I'd like to do is improve on the platen attachment/locking/leveling that I have. How do the main manufacturers approach platen attachment (I've looked at M&R a bit already)? My current setup is similar to the old TAS I think.

Any advise is appreciated.
Cheers
James

[mimosatexas]

jvanick did that to his old javelin and is really knowledgeable about that press in general.

[Wildcard]

The info I've heard about converting javelins is where I got the idea to look into it myself. I'd love to get some feedback on how it works out.

[jvanick]

That is true.. I converted a '92 Javelin to 2 of the chopper heads that are used on the new javelins and freedoms.
The biggest issues with the chopper conversion is that the old presses used a different print head track (the old  uses a block of plastic vs the newer version that runs on v-bearings). -- if you have the older track, you have to install a new track, new squeegee stops, and new hangers for the rear screen holder.

I didn't build the conversion myself, I actually bought the conversion kits and parts from Workhorse to do it., at the time I believe it was around $1100 or so total per head for everything I needed (conversion kit, new carriage stop, new hanger brackets).

any questions you have, please don't hesitate to ask.  I likely even have pictures saved of the conversion process.

it's not in-expensive, but if the rest of the press is working well, to do a head at a time (I personally recommend heads 1 and 6 (last head)), isn't bad... if you have all the parts ready to go, you can do the conversion in a few hours.

One thing that Workhorse didn't include is a print-stroke pressure regulator.. you can purchase those for less than $50 with all the parts you'd need to install it from 3rd partys (I prefer automation express for air lines, fittings, and parts like this), and I'd HIGHLY recommend you add them to each head you convert to chopper.

[Wildcard]

Would you say that the effort and expense were worthwhile? I'm imagining that the advantage is having better control of squeegee angle and pressure, where my V setup (not a javelin) adjusts both at the same time and it's tricky to get consistency between jobs.

Because I have an unsupported machine, the conversion would be a bit of a DIY effort. Most likely trying to get a suitable used chopper assembly and finding a way to attach to the existing carriage system. Not sure yet if it's worth the effort.

[jvanick]

Would you say that the effort and expense were worthwhile? I'm imagining that the advantage is having better control of squeegee angle and pressure, where my V setup (not a javelin) adjusts both at the same time and it's tricky to get consistency between jobs.

Because I have an unsupported machine, the conversion would be a bit of a DIY effort. Most likely trying to get a suitable used chopper assembly and finding a way to attach to the existing carriage system. Not sure yet if it's worth the effort.

what do you mean by 'unsupported' machine?  Mine was way un-supported when I purchased it (as scrap steel, no less).  Some parts were made by TUF Products, some were just 'made' with a welder in a someone's garage, and some were somewhat more current from Workhorse when I git it.

The effort and expense for head 1 (where we'd print underbases) alone was worth wile...  we converted head 6 later as we wanted to be able to use winged floodbars.

it definitely stepped up our print quality and speed of getting jobs on press.

personally I wouldn't upgrade more than 1 or 2 of the heads... if you're thinking of going the route of upgrading the whole press, just sell it and find a old gauntlett or something.

post some pics of your current print heads.. let's see what you're working with.

[blue moon]

Jason, he has a one off, Chinese made prototype. It is possible they copied the workhorse design, but it sounded like it was different. Search his early post for discussion on it. Also, he is in Australia which complicates matters slightly.

Pierre

P.s. That's Australia, one with an L and kangaroos!

[jvanick]

Jason, he has a one off, Chinese made prototype. It is possible they copied the workhorse design, but it sounded like it was different. Search his early post for discussion on it. Also, he is in Australia which complicates matters slightly.

Pierre

P.s. That's Australia, one with an L and kangaroos!

got it. . -- that does complicate things a lot... if he has the clearance for the track and the head, he still may be able to get away with using the workhorse parts.

but at that point, it might be better to find a TAS or something else available down under

... a 'tech' visit to down under would be frowned upon by Tiffany, not to mention expensive.

[Gilligan]

Also, he is in Australia which complicates matters slightly.

Is that because his auto spins the opposite way due to the Coriolis effect?

[blue moon]

Also, he is in Australia which complicates matters slightly.

Is that because his auto spins the opposite way due to the Coriolis effect?

Nah, it's because they are on the bottom part of the earth and everything hangs upside down. Imagine trying to load shirts there!

Pierre

[Wildcard]

Okay, attached are a few quick snaps of the machine. Blue Moon has pretty much covered what I mean by 'unsupported' - the company that made the machine is no longer operating and there are no technicians available to help with any modifications or calibration (another issue I need to post about). It doesn't seem to match any other auto I have seen elsewhere, so my ideas for tweaking the machine are all involving a DIY approach. The machine doesn't seem overly complex, I'm sure a local engineer could put together a solution, but my real hurdle for getting things done is a distinct lack of money.
So I've been looking around for an old used chopper print head that I could attach to the current print head carriage (the thick Alu plate) and redirect the print/flood pneumatics. This wouldn't affect any of the limits or programming as far as I can tell, but the inline pressure regulator sounds important (if its not a part of the chopper assembly).
It sounds like it will be a worthwhile project to pursue assuming I can find a reasonably priced chopper assembly, I have a lot of issues with getting my pressure/angle/off-contact working for each job because each adjustments knocks the others out a touch. Since the industry here is pretty tiny with not much used gear going around, I'm wondering if it would be worth approaching a Chinese factory to get parts.

Other improvements I have brewing in my head:
I have considered making a winged flood bar for the V-squeegee, but I'm thinking that the arc of the down stroke would be problematic in getting the flood bar down without wings digging into the mesh badly.
I would really like to have at least 2 heads with micro adjusters on the outer clamps, because the micros on this machine are a ball ache.
Re-working the platen attachment to a quick release system.

[jvanick]

the good news is that it looks like your print heads are built pretty solidly...

with that huge piece of aluminum hanging under the print head, it would give you the ability to either re-create the flat piece or add a 2nd piece under to mount some choppers on.

your idea of finding a set of choppers from a 'donor' machine is a good one.  modify the mounting for the 4 chopper cylinders and you're well on your way.

you may want to check out Marcodie's parts shop that was recently discussed here... you may be able to just buy what you need from them...

[Wildcard]

Yeah, it's an okay setup but is lacking in certain areas. That plate should be good to mount a new system to, but it's hard to say without the pieces in front of me.
I searched the forum for Marcodie but didn't find the parts shop thread jvanick referenced: any chance of a posted link?

[jvanick]

it's in the post about 'whatever happened to marcodie' in the equipment forum

Here's a cut and paste of the relevant info...

www.marcodie-international.com
sales@marcodie.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf3TTWPfMMk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRxxtel0Dw&feature=youtu.be

another option may be someone on digitsmith selling a press for scrap...  not sure what it would cost to have a pallet of print arms shipped (literally) over, but it has to be a lot less expensive than a whole press.

[Wildcard]

Just watched that video with the auto-voice... Bizarre.
But it's a good idea and I'll see if I can get a price on print carriage only.
Thanks for the help!