Inks that don't stick.

[Dottonedan]

In another thread about multi flashing, it was mentioned to use inks that won't build up as much. What of that?

What are the characteristics when picking at the ink Co website to look for to reduce buildup?   Is it a brand, type in a brand, a modifier to any ink, or is it just that thinner inks (aka sim process inks) just build up less?

[Dottonedan]

If you haven't guessed, I'm looking at characteristics that would yield high pace production such as 600-900 shirts an HR. That kind of area.

[LoneWolf2]

I've used quite a few different brands/types. (IC, Triangle, Rutland, Texsource, Wilflex, still testing the Synergy base so the jury is out.)
My favorite by far (so far) is the wilflex amazing base/pc combo with a little bit of their reducer to help with tack (especially in the hot humid summers here), gives such a nice smooth matte finish.
Least favorite would be triangle/texsource. Hard enough to print non-WOW, nightmare to print WoW.

However, out of all the ink systems/RFU inks, none of them print colors with the fluorescent pigments/colors without pretty nasty sticking issues. Not sure if it's just something I do, or the ink, but its a pain in the ass as I print a lot of jobs with those type colors.

Oddly enough, when mixing certain pantones between the Rutland m3 system and wilflex PC system one system will use a Fluoro pigment/color and the other will use standard mixing colors.
190C for example with Rutland is just mixing white and Red. Wilflex PC is white, lots of fluoro pink, and a touch of bright orange, maroon. The rutland mix prints phenomenally, while the Wilflex isn't printable unless it'll be flashed or printed last.

[jvanick]

we are nearly through our first 5er of Synergy NexGen base and have been much happier with it than with Amazing Base (which we were very happy with).  The Synergy base seems to disperse the PC pigments far faster than the amazing base, flashes faster with pretty much no tack, and has some seriously excellent coverage properties.

FYI, on the wilflex PC colors, you can email their tech services department and you can request a custom mix with less FL pigments... I had a gallon of Red PC which is discontinued but I wanted to use up, Steve Hedge was able to get me mixes to use that PC for 185 and 199, I'm not near our ink computer, but I seem to remember that there was basically no FL pigments in it, and it prints better.

[Colin]

Fluorescent pigments are realllly big molecules - hence build up.  No way around it.

Pigment load has a large bearing on "particle" build up.  The more pigment/higher opacity the more likely a color is to become dryer/tacky/build up during a print run.

Ink chemistry is also at play here.  Particle size as mentioned above causes build up.  Flashing components cause build up.  Some liquid fillers cause stickiness/Tackiness.  Some blowing agents (opacity boosters) can get hot and expand....... I know at QCM * pre-Rutland * we had inks that would last wet on wet longer than our competitors.  We also had different sources for some of our components.  Unfotunately, I know that on occasion we would have pigment load on the high side in some mixes and that would cause build up

TLDR: Lots of reasons for build up.  Heat/chemistry/Thickness of Ink Deposit/Tension of Screens/ etc....  We all know the drill by now.

All you can do is run your own in house testing and hope that the company you choose is actually consistent from batch to batch....

[dirkdiggler]

Wilflex and forget about it 

[Doug S]

Wilflex and forget about it 

I couldn't agree more.

[jsheridan]

Wilflex and forget about it 

I couldn't agree more.

Make that 3 heck yeahs.

I've run super poly white at 700 pcs per hour and normal whites at 800+ per hour.

Screen, squeegee/flood setup techniques and  GOOD ink make it all happen

[GaryG]

Eighteen years worth of heck yeah's here.

Also found 255 mesh or up helps with less sticking.
Ink needs to be cool, and enough tension to snap off properly too.
Colors have been played out above. Just test "your" system to refine for less shtick.

[Joe Clarke]

we are nearly through our first 5er of Synergy NexGen base and have been much happier with it than with Amazing Base (which we were very happy with).  The Synergy base seems to disperse the PC pigments far faster than the amazing base, flashes faster with pretty much no tack, and has some seriously excellent coverage properties.

FYI, on the wilflex PC colors, you can email their tech services department and you can request a custom mix with less FL pigments... I had a gallon of Red PC which is discontinued but I wanted to use up, Steve Hedge was able to get me mixes to use that PC for 185 and 199, I'm not near our ink computer, but I seem to remember that there was basically no FL pigments in it, and it prints better.

End of the month at MEG we are going to cover in detail "ink build-up" Jason. The onus is on the ink maker as such we formulate based upon sorting the causes of build-up into four categories; 1) Temporal Absorption, 2) Phase Separation, 3) Critical Pigment Volume and 4) Thermal Response. We do this because the "solutions" to ink build-up for each of the four categories differ. Fortunately each of them can be identified by their occurrence, appearance and location. For example Phase Separation will build-first and foremost at the perimeter of the screen on a warm flashed underbase and will exhibit peaking prior to building-up on the subsequent screens. The prepress solutions are a higher fluid flow mesh. The on-press adjustments include reduced angle with a softer blade at optimal speed. Ironically if we were to take the same steps with Temporal Absorption the problem would get worse. But as was implied and explicitly stated above, the ink must serve to make WOW possible. See you in a few weeks, I think it will be a useful discussion.

[GKitson]

we are nearly through our first 5er of Synergy NexGen base and have been much happier with it than with Amazing Base (which we were very happy with).  The Synergy base seems to disperse the PC pigments far faster than the amazing base, flashes faster with pretty much no tack, and has some seriously excellent coverage properties.

FYI, on the wilflex PC colors, you can email their tech services department and you can request a custom mix with less FL pigments... I had a gallon of Red PC which is discontinued but I wanted to use up, Steve Hedge was able to get me mixes to use that PC for 185 and 199, I'm not near our ink computer, but I seem to remember that there was basically no FL pigments in it, and it prints better.

End of the month at MEG we are going to cover in detail "ink build-up" Jason. The onus is on the ink maker as such we formulate based upon sorting the causes of build-up into four categories; 1) Temporal Absorption, 2) Phase Separation, 3) Critical Pigment Volume and 4) Thermal Response. We do this because the "solutions" to ink build-up for each of the four categories differ. Fortunately each of them can be identified by their occurrence, appearance and location. For example Phase Separation will build-first and foremost at the perimeter of the screen on a warm flashed underbase and will exhibit peaking prior to building-up on the subsequent screens. The prepress solutions are a higher fluid flow mesh. The on-press adjustments include reduced angle with a softer blade at optimal speed. Ironically if we were to take the same steps with Temporal Absorption the problem would get worse. But as was implied and explicitly stated above, the ink must serve to make WOW possible. See you in a few weeks, I think it will be a useful discussion.

MEG = Mind's Eye Graphics

[Prōdigium]

In all my years of printing, I found that bad ink buildup was more due to the process...NOT the ink itself. Poor screen tension being a big one, followed next by poor selection of the print order. Some colors naturally build up more than others, so it makes sense to put them towards the end, or before a flash if possible.

Another often overlooked matter has to do with emulsion, and more importantly how you coat your screens. Using a 155 with a base 2+2 coat leaves the surface more rough, and my experience was that it picked up more ink. Some other emulsions are just more slippery like One Pot Sol from Murakami. Also one thing I have seen is that some emulsions do NOT like aerosol screen openers and get sticky if you wipe the whole screen down...making the problem worse. This is often a problem with under-exposed screens and pure photo-polymers.

As mentioned squeegee pressure and angles will have an impact, but do not under look the problems of dull squeegee blades either. A dull blade has more surface area, and can lead to pickup versus a nice sharp squeegee.

[Dottonedan]

Excellent comments.  This thread is covering everything I thought it was, or, it seems everyone has touched on the same subjects that I had remembered and some I had considerations on, but was not 100% sure of myself.  I haven't delved into decreasing pickup for years and in this job I have now, I don't get involved in the printing. Still though, knowing, helps problem solve for other issues.


Sharp squeegee blades is one that I haven't given much thought to as a contributor but I know it's highly possible.


Thanks all!!!