Who here has switched from ALL rollers to All Statics?

[tonypep]

Scott and Brannon take en extra step or two to pre-treat the frames before stretching. They keep getting better at this. Pretty sure other stretching svcs are not doing it how they are. They shared a tip with me as we have the ability to stretch our own to supplement. But they do it so well and probably less expensive to use them. 

[mk162]

How much is spot color paying you guys to say all of this?

Honestly, I hate you guys.  I really didn't want to get into S-mesh because it's another mesh and I'd have a mixture of meshes and so on, but it looks like that is the route I am going to have to take.

I am getting some screens from them today, it's my first order in a while for restretches with them and I am looking forward to it.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Since going to s mesh statics I have to say that printing has become much easier.

[alan802]

One of the biggest reasons why we do the amount of work we do with a crew of 3 is because of good screens.  We use all rollers but I've said, before they were making them, that a properly stretched static with S thread will do about 80% of what a roller will do, maybe 90% in the right hands.  From a business standpoint and ROI a roller frame can't be beat.  It cannot be beat as well when it comes to print quality and setup times but the shop has to find out what level of quality they want to achieve, how fast they need to turn jobs and a few other things and make the decision.  There may be a few areas where a static will be better than a roller and the differences have been hashed out many times over the years so we don't need to go there.  A roller frame is better than a static just like a SUPER SHARP squeegee blade is better than a SHARP blade but at what level does the shop in question need to perform?  Our shop needs to maximize every second we have.  We're doing 15-20 setups per day on average, 8-12 jobs per day, average 950 shirts/1500 impressions per day, mostly on darks and 99% plastisol...one press, 3 guys and me when needed.  Some weeks we'll do 10,000 impressions and only 25 jobs and other weeks we'll do 4,000 for the week and 50 jobs.  We couldn't do the work we do in the time we do it with statics, but I think we could get pretty close.  I just like buying a frame once and it will forever be able to print if taken care of.  I like the added sweet spot, the added durability (static S thread will not last as long as a properly stretched roller), full control over the mesh I want to use and how it's stretched, but most shops don't need what I like to use.  I don't like being forced to use a very small selection of mesh counts so rollers are the only way around that. 

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of statics, I'd be wasting my time.  A really good static, with the right mesh count will perform beyond what many printers can do but they will not outperform a roller.

We've used rollers, went to statics, then to rollers and Shurloc EZ frames, and now back to 90% rollers/10% statics so it's not like we don't have much experience with the different types of screens.  I buy statics from time to time and they are in and out of the production loop on a daily basis.  We lose statics due to busting at about a 3 to 1 rate versus rollers and I've been keeping up with that stat for about 4 years now so it's another one of those things that can be argued about but it is what it is and nothing will change that. 

Sorry, couldn't let a thread about rollers and statics go by without giving my .02.  I try my best to put as much context into my posts because, well, I won't get too far into it but many of the most important details on the roller versus static debate are left out for obvious reasons.

[tonypep]

All true but statics+WB=win. Rollers+WB=overkill

[Sbrem]

Well written as usual Alan, but I don't get how setting up a roller frame on a press is faster than a static, but that may be because of the presses we use. Our MHM's system is pins, and doesn't matter at all when inserting into the press, all the frames have pins on them, there are no other options on an MHM.

Steve

[tonypep]

Funny thing though..............so very many shops never work harden their rollers. Can't remember if I ever was in one and I've been around. At any rate, my presses are old and the clamp system won't accept them. 

[ffokazak]

As a new-ish I-Image ST user, the tension/Work hardened level of screens is more apparent in setup times.

We've all got a couple statics that survived the last few years.... ( Or rollers that never got retensioned because of a hole or whatever reason) Putting one of those low tensioned screens into the loop means a zero chance of the reg being bang on.  With my work hardened 30 N screens, I can pretty much send 14 shirts around before even checking the reg. 9.5 times out of 10 it is perfect. the other .5 it is well within the tolerances I see on retail ready shirts and a quick twist of the micros and were off.  Granted we do a lot of Sim process, I fully respect that each shop is different.

That would be my biggest concern. Different tensioned statics giving us issues on press with registration. Once a screen is ripped, or replaced, it is tossed into production with statics that have been around for years.

My 2cents.

Im with Alan, we are a shop that utilizes the full control over the rollers.

[Rockers]

Early this year we got around 30 of our old statics re-stretched by Murakami with S-mesh. They came back at a tension level of 28N for a 150-S. 1000 impressions later that level just dropped by 2N. Impressive if you ask me. All screens come back like brand new, all cleaned. At $25 for each re-stretched screen a no brainer for us. Still got 150 statics that need to be converted to S-mesh. We have as well 72 Newman frames but I can`t see us investing in more. Too expensive especially if you take the high overseas shipping rates into account. 

[Nation03]

I always wanted to invest and switch over to strictly shurloc frames, but the time hasn't come yet. Until then, these static S-mesh screens have been great. River City seems to do a good job stretching them, but I'm curious about spot colors frames with the permanent block out. I'd like to try going tape free, other then the mesh protection tape.

[alan802]

Well written as usual Alan, but I don't get how setting up a roller frame on a press is faster than a static, but that may be because of the presses we use. Our MHM's system is pins, and doesn't matter at all when inserting into the press, all the frames have pins on them, there are no other options on an MHM.

Steve

We've had roughly 300-350 statics through our doors over the years and only recently have we had frames that are as flat as a properly stretched roller.  I don't know how much a racked static will affect registration but I do believe it does more than differing tension levels.  I'm not a huge believer in all the screens for a particular job being the same tension, believe it or not.  For a while, back when we were just getting back to using newman rollers and still had a ton of statics in production, I was concerned that we would have issues with such huge discrepancies in tension levels between screens but we just never saw that bear any fruit on press.  And I also didn't think that a slightly racked static could cause many issues on press since the frame locks would essentially "correct" a racked frame.  But over the years I never really figured out what exactly was causing the regi issues on press but it really seemed to be a combination of racked frames and out of calibration press rather than the difference in tension. 

I'm not convinced by any means exactly how much each variable within the screen affects registration, I can only say that the registration issues simply dwindled in occurrence the more "squared away" our screens became and the higher tolerance we got our press calibrated.  I won't argue with anyone who says they get the best results if all of their screens are the exact same tension level but I would argue that there are probably other factors that have more of an impact and they might be overlooking something.  When we were first getting into super high tension printing we still were using a lot of statics and on more than a few occasions we had screens on press with 65 newtons and as low as 15 and never struggled to get and maintain registration.  Looking back, I think we saw the largest decrease in setup times when we calibrated the press for the 1st time.  Put a properly stretched roller on a finely tuned press and you'll likely never have significant regi issues that can't be fixed with one or two test prints.

[ericheartsu]

who wants to teach a class on proper newman stretching?

[bimmridder]

There are some good videos by George on the Stretch Device site last I knew

[dirkdiggler]

I stretched a million of them and can do it well, just prefer not to.

[jsheridan]

who wants to teach a class on proper newman stretching?

George and I share the same zip code, could go on tour as the stretch masters of the universe..

why bother when statics are so easy