Tension meter?

[Frog]

Like you said, no easy answer, but 12 screens?
I would advise someone with a four color manual to have more than that on hand. I guess that it comes down to how many colors one generally prints ((and of course the machine's capability), but I would feel a lot more comfortable with at least twice that.

[Shanarchy]

Like you said, no easy answer, but 12 screens?
I would advise someone with a four color manual to have more than that on hand. I guess that it comes down to how many colors one generally prints ((and of course the machine's capability), but I would feel a lot more comfortable with at least twice that.

I was taking into account that he would have all his statics which he is currently using. I meant more so as a starting point of $1500 you can have a dozen screens and the tools to get started with (using both static and retensionable) and as his budget allows he could add more or keep on the lookout for used frames (appx $30 used).

[Prosperi-Tees]

What is the cost to get totally set up with roller frames? I am talking the right amount of frames for a starting auto shop, the right mesh counts, the table and all the other whoopty woo that goes along with it. Oh and then how long does it take to get to the point where you really know what you are doing with them. I imagine switching to rollers is kinda the same as going from manual printing to auto printing. I am thinking you could easily be 10K deep when all is said and done. Am I far off? I am not arguing that they are better and they are an investment just wanting to know what is the investment and the learning curve.

This isn't exactly the answer to your question, but you can get yourself started for under $1500.
tension meter: $300
tool kit: $325
12 MZX auto frames: $625 ($875 for M3's)
mesh for 12 screens: $60

a table is very nice, but not a must to start out.
keep in mind you can always find used frames to keep adding to your collection

What is the difference between MZX and M3s?

[Fresh Baked Printing]

MZX are one square bar. M3 are all round bars.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Ok I just researched a little. I have seen some people having trouble keeping the frames flat and not bowed, is this because of the lack of a roller table? Also I seen they have mesh panels for them, it seems expensive, is anyone using those or are most using rolls of mesh?

[Fresh Baked Printing]

You don't need a roller table to keep them flat, just a flat table. The roller table just really speeds up the whole process to apply the mesh, tension, etc.
Panels are fast and more $ but the stretching and tension is more consistent with no need to soften corners. Panels become cost effective in the decreased ripped mesh and fast setup they allow.

[Homer]

costs:

USED tension meter = 100.00

USED M3's = 20-30ea.

table (I bought the green screen table, brand new it's 400.00, I paid 150.00)

mesh - 100.00 goes a long way, then upgrade to panels down the road

Torque wrench - 35.00 @ harbor freight

1500- 2k will get you everything you need for around 30 screens

I am buying all new screens, no dents, weak spots, stripped threads or anything to worry about. the learning curve isn't too bad, I just had a 305 pop while sitting in the rack after I coated it. not too sure what happened there, I must have not softened the corner enough or something. it was "s" mesh ?  so i think it may be that brittle mesh Al was dealing with.

[tancehughes]

What is the cost to get totally set up with roller frames? I am talking the right amount of frames for a starting auto shop, the right mesh counts, the table and all the other whoopty woo that goes along with it. Oh and then how long does it take to get to the point where you really know what you are doing with them. I imagine switching to rollers is kinda the same as going from manual printing to auto printing. I am thinking you could easily be 10K deep when all is said and done. Am I far off? I am not arguing that they are better and they are an investment just wanting to know what is the investment and the learning curve.

Gerry a 36 frame kit and roller master everything brand new is going to run around $7,500... but as the others have said, there are some good used frame deals out there.

After a good 6 months you should be very familiar with how to work with the rollers. From tension levels, to work hardening the mesh, to keeping screens flat.

The transition to rollers is much easier when you start out with a roller master as well.

As Frog said, starting with 12 frames is really low and while it can be done, it's much better to start out with say 24 or 36. In my opinion, it's much better to either be an all roller frame shop or an all static shop. I know some out there have some of both, but using the two sets of frames can be a difficult way to go.

[squeegee]

 

it's much better to either be an all roller frame shop or an all static shop. I know some out there have some of both, but using the two sets of frames can be a difficult way to go.

I agree with this, having one frame std and one size will make your shop more efficient.  If your OC changes between frames, then mixing frames in a job will be difficult.  Different screen sizes means different handling for each size as well.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Maybe I will start building up some inventory over the next year or so. Buying used frames seems like you could save 40% or so over new. Besides stripped/rounded bolts what else should you look for? I dont fully understand the corner softening thing. And why its not necessary when using the panels? What is the life span of a panel vs roll mesh that you cut and stretch?

[tpitman]

The panels from Shur-Loc are pre-softened, in that they're cut and glued to the plastic strips that snap into the frame channels in such a way so as to relieve the corners, which is where most tears occur when loading and tensioning bolt mesh. As for stripped bolts on used frames, the only way to find out is to get them. Over half my stuff is used, and the only complaint I have with used is they're often encrusted with so much crud and mung that the time spent cleaning them up almost makes it not worth the savings. If you're paying over $25 or so to have used, dirty frames shipped, it's almost more worthwhile to shop around and buy new. I've bought a dozen new over the last few years, and it beats trying to strip the crap off used.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I hear ya, over the last 2 years there is so much equipment that I bought that I thought would be good and it ended up giving me more headache so if I were smart I would probably buy new just so I know whatever goes wrong is because of me.

[Shanarchy]

A couple of tidbits.

I have somewhere between 75-100 Newman's. I bought them all used. Of them all, only one is trash. There are maybe 10 more that the bolts were pretty rusty. The good side to buying used is they tend to run you half the price. But the bad side is they do come with some needed labor. Often removing the locking strips can be quite a task, as well as removing tape and cleaning old ink off of them. So if you are a very busy one man shop it may not be worth the savings. But if you have down time or a reclaimer with time on his/her hands it can be well worth it. I think the vast majority can be cleaned up and are perfectly useable.

Second, you will probably want to decide weather or not you are going to go MZX or M3 before you start buying. They use different size wrenches. Not that big of a deal by hand, but the roller table is made for one or the other. I believe the M3's are made to handle higher tension without bowing (don't quote me on that) but the MZX should hold high enough tensions for 95% of shops out there. The MZX's are easier to find used and also easier to be found with a square back if you are looking for them that way.

The mesh panels make life very simple, but you will find people who prefer stretching bolt mesh (John Sheridan). But I think the panels will help the learning curve.

Flattening them is pretty simple. Just have a strong table that is flat and smooth (or a stretching table).

I will agree that you are better off being all static or all retensionable, but if the budget does not allow, there is no time like the present to start collecting them. However, I would not mix them on the same job. Tons of beautiful shirts are printed without them everyday (I think Pierre uses statics), but it becomes a real nice way to help control a big variable. You rarely read about someone who made the switch and goes back to statics.

[Frog]

 You rarely read about someone who made the switch and goes back to statics.

Nope, apparently they go under and supply the used buyers! lol!

[Shanarchy]

 You rarely read about someone who made the switch and goes back to statics.

Nope, apparently they go under and supply the used buyers! lol!

hahaha good point! I mean they are always readily available on the used market!