Changing my way of printing

[Logoman]

I have been printing for a long time now and have always thought that Revolver was the way to go. You can program the press to go around as many times as it takes to get an image bright on a dark shirt. This process seemed to take a long time. My present press is a 6 color 8 station. I will be getting my new Press tomorrow (Workhorse Sabre 8 color 10 station) and would like to change my way of thinking and try to print in one revolution to be more Productive. Any input on the subject, Inks Brands, Mesh Counts ect.?

[LoneWolf2]

If you haven't already, switch to S-Mesh frames. Game-changing product to add to your shop. Since you have the extra room on press, do a top-white instead of p/f/p/f with the flashbacks for bright whites that double as the UB. Won't give you near as thick of an underbase, and won't slow production to crawl.

[blue moon]

you will also need inks that are designed to print wet on wet and will have to use thinner mesh for the top colors. If the deposit is too thick it will mushroom out when the next color steps on it.
some colors are problematic going on the ubase alsone, yellow and gold are just too thin to get good coverage so we either PFP the ubase or switch to DC when there are large areas. You could also just leave it for the last in the sequence and print with your thicker mesh and opaque ink (which is generally not as good for WOW).

pierre

[3Deep]

Having  two flashes seems to be the trick to one go around or DC underbase,  I fell ya on going around to many times, even a little 36 pc job can turn into 72 pc or even more if you printing both sides.

[Sbrem]

I was told by Rick Roth and his crew that "...if you're using more than 2 flashes, you're doing something wrong..." We hold firmly to that, as we haven't as yet had to use more than 2, though we do have a 10 color press, which makes a difference.

Steve

[jvanick]

I was told by Rick Roth and his crew that "...if you're using more than 2 flashes, you're doing something wrong..." We hold firmly to that, as we haven't as yet had to use more than 2, though we do have a 10 color press, which makes a difference.

Steve

true for plastisol and discharge in most cases  (although sometimes the art does play a role here)

however, for spot-color HSA, totally different story...

[Admiral]

I was told by Rick Roth and his crew that "...if you're using more than 2 flashes, you're doing something wrong..." We hold firmly to that, as we haven't as yet had to use more than 2, though we do have a 10 color press, which makes a difference.

Steve

Glitter inks? glow in the dark? metallics? fluorescents?

Tons of inks can't be printed WOW - but as a general rule for regular plastisols sure.  We went from a 7 color press to a 12 color, on the 7 we were forced to often print right after the flash, everything WOW, but man 2-3 flashes being an option in one revolution opens up a lot more possibilities.

[Stinkhorn Press]

I second this question.

For an simple example:
2 Color print on darks. White and say, red.
I assume 3 screens, UB white, red, top white.

generally, what mesh for each screen to do that? anything specifically you'd do to make that run best/easiest 90% time (cool down? different pressures? different whites? trapped top white? heads you prefer to use? gods you curse or pray to before you begin?)

[jvanick]

for us:

160S base  choked/trapped .5 or .6pt 'centered'
flash
cool
225S red
225S top white

generally we run the same white for the base and the top (One Stroke Hybrid White).

for difficult fabrics we'll mess around with all or some of the inks (One Stroke Bravo stretch has been working really well on poly garments for us, and cures at the same 320 degrees that the top colors do)

for other garments, we may use wilflex performance white as the underbase then colors on top.

for hsa work, it's a lot more complex:

160S underbase - white or black
flash
cool
160S underbase white
flash
cool
Color 1
flash
cool
color 2
flash
cool

etc.

sometimes when we're feeling risky and the top colors aren't touching we may run the hsa colors without flashing in between.

this is all on our 10color press with 2 flashes, so we're kings of running revolver.

when we eventually upgrade to an oval, It'll probably be something like a 54 station, 14 color press LOL.

[Logoman]

Thanks everyone

[Sbrem]

I was told by Rick Roth and his crew that "...if you're using more than 2 flashes, you're doing something wrong..." We hold firmly to that, as we haven't as yet had to use more than 2, though we do have a 10 color press, which makes a difference.

Steve

true for plastisol and discharge in most cases  (although sometimes the art does play a role here)

however, for spot-color HSA, totally different story...

Yes, that's what I hear about it. I think you would have to be moving a fair amount of that at a good price to make it worthwhile...

Steve

[Sbrem]

I was told by Rick Roth and his crew that "...if you're using more than 2 flashes, you're doing something wrong..." We hold firmly to that, as we haven't as yet had to use more than 2, though we do have a 10 color press, which makes a difference.

Steve

Glitter inks? glow in the dark? metallics? fluorescents?

Tons of inks can't be printed WOW - but as a general rule for regular plastisols sure.  We went from a 7 color press to a 12 color, on the 7 we were forced to often print right after the flash, everything WOW, but man 2-3 flashes being an option in one revolution opens up a lot more possibilities.

I suppose I should have said for sim process type of work with normal plastisol. Yes, some jobs have different requirement, but the meat and potatoes work that pays the bills generally should have a 2 flash maximum. Also, you print a lot more shirts when it doesn't go around the press twice... (like I really have to say that...)

Steve

[Screen Dan]

We've got 3 12-color presses and 1 14-color press, each with two flashes each.   If we have to run a big job on revolver then we'll steal a flasher from another press and avoid that, if possible.

The formula has been the same for years: 

150-S white/underbase (sometimes DC) (though we've been using 180-S lately...just doesn't 1-stroke as easily).
225-T colors, top white and black after the 2nd flash.  Occasionally we cram other colors in there, but rarely.  (Used to run 225-S @ 60LPI, but the shop couldn't learn to be delicate with my mesh...55LPI is fine on textiles.)

Revolver only comes up for jobs that are a huge pain but aren't big enough to waste time on.

Obviously there are certain jobs where we throw the entire formula out the window.  But the vast majority of our 135k-200k impressions a month are done this way and have been for years.

Linearize that RIP, guys.  Best thing that ever happened to this shop.  (Nobody in 15 years ever thought to do that until I came along).

[ABuffington]

Pierre hit upon the real technique to wet onto wet printing.  Controlling the amount of ink deposit is crucial to WOW printing.  Mesh counts can go up, way up compared to revolver printing or rotary load hand press.  Even 300 mesh can put down too much ink on a tight sim process job.  330-350 mesh is often used to avoid ink spread.  the first prints will appear light, but as the ink builds up on the bottom of each screen it will hit a consistency that doesn't involve cleaning the bottom of screens for ink build up during the print run, and avoids fuzzy edges and blurred details.  Vector art may use coarser screens, but a 3-4 color spot color can often present more WOW print problems than a 10 color sim process.  Solid areas printed wet onto wet are color specific, that PMS number better match.  Take the NBA logo.  Red 185 /white/ Reflex blue.  Simple enough. 
Base - 150/48
Flash
Cool Down
Red - 225/40 or even up to 280/34
Blue - 225/40
Flash
Cool Down
White Highlight - 225/40 - 300/34

All 8 stations are used, cool down stations really help when the pallets start hitting a critical temp and causes hot tack issues right after the base. 
But some of you will recognize that the above set up has a flaw.  That red ink is going to be tough to print wow if it is a large solid vector print.  The blue will want to lift it
off and since red is marginally opaque it may be lighter in the center and darker to the edges, or leave little pick up peaks of ink that mottle the ink.  this is a case for a high tension screen.  To me, for non stop headache free production this would be the set up with 3 flashes

1. White 150/s
2. Flash
3. Flattening screen (eliminate on an 8 color press)
4. Red - 225/40 - 280/34
5. Flash
6. Blue - 225/40 - 280/34
7. Flash
8. Cool Down (but if only 8 stations, this would be hi light white with some retarder on a 225/S to avoid curing ink in the screen.
9. 225/40-300/34 high light. - this needs a 10 station press.
10. (If ten color I would have a cool down station behind the red flash.

Flash backs help, but if you do contract work it will bring you to your knees on hourly yields as the press slows down a lot, but since you have used the revolver program it would still be faster.  Revolver program to me is a huge plus on a press.  There are jobs where the volume and set up don't justify wow.  Take 1 color work.  Most of us do print/flash/print that requires registration time, maybe moving flash, setting up a flattening screen.  When the print run is under 144 one screen is a heck of a lot faster.  Just run around twice with one operator and enough dwell for them to load and unload.

Jason is right, wait til you try HSA inks.  It can take 4 stations with 2 flashes just to get the base plate!  On a New York Yankee Job I have seen a 24 station Alpha struggle with 5 flashes to get the HSA right and then an hour into the job the pallets are so hot inks start curing in the screens. 

Al

[JBLUE]

I was told by Rick Roth and his crew that "...if you're using more than 2 flashes, you're doing something wrong..." We hold firmly to that, as we haven't as yet had to use more than 2, though we do have a 10 color press, which makes a difference.

Steve

Add double stroking to this too.