Foil

[DannyGruninger]

Here's some actual data from another company prior to us doing our ROI...... Our ROI is much more attractive then this as we are doing many more pcs per hour then the company who did this study.

Des. 7167 x 1,500pcs, printed on S-Roque machine vs. the same design printed on an automatic press + Hoss transfer station
(The same loader printed 1,500pcs of this design at different times: on the S-Roque and also the automatic)

S-Roque
Labour cost: $0.13 each imprint
Calculation: 3 workers x $12 x 5.45hrs = $196.20

Automatic Press w/ Manual Foil
Labor cost: $0.31 each imprint (2 step process)
Step 1: 3 workers x $12 x 2.12hrs = $76.32
Step 2 (transfer presses): 4 workers x $12 x 8.0hrs = $384.00
In Step 2: 4 workers produce 3 garments/minute, i.e. 180/hr
Total cost: $460.32

Our historical records of production rates for this foil design on the S-Roque are:-
Robert x 180pcs
Kim x 251pcs
Zhe x 275pcs

14 color automatic (adhesive only)
Zhe x 708pcs

Savings S.Roque vs. Manual.
$.13 per garment vs. $.31 per garment.
* 238% increase of productivity.
* 58% margin increase per unit
* 42% of the labor required to produce

[zanegun08]

Savings S.Roque vs. Manual.
$.13 per garment vs. $.31 per garment.
* 238% increase of productivity.
* 58% margin increase per unit
* 42% of the labor required to produce

The inline foil is pretty cool, but I just don't see how when running it through the dryer it isn't getting duller.  Anytime we run foil the the dryer it gets dull, no matter if it's A-magic, Crown, ect.

Also, keep in mind, I doubt that ttwo0603 is in the US, so his labour cost could be 15 workers running heat presses 8 hours a day for $196.20 total, all while their presses are rocking out 1000 pieces per hour, and the press isn't tied up running 30k pieces at the fastest below of 275 pieces per hour, or 109 hours non stop to complete the order.

What makes sense in the US, is totally different.  The benefit in the US is you can turn this order in 10-15 business days, and ordering overseas could take 4-6 weeks.

Different market, while the inline foil is rad, if labour costs is not such an issue, then inline foil takes away from production since you loose the opportunity to run another job faster, and be making money in two places.

Does the inline foil fit on any of the round presses, or only the oval presses?  Anytime I see an oval running, it looks like it is running so slow!

[DannyGruninger]

The foil attachment fits on any press. If you do put it on an oval and say you are only doing a single color foil you could actually run multiple foil attachments with multiple operators loading and unloading  garments. I'm planning to do this if I land some large scale foil opportunities and just print as many pcs on one machine per hour as possible, stack all garments then have a night crew come cure all the garments through the dryer. I figure between a crew of 8 total we can do over 14,000 pcs per shift. You would have a person loading garments at each station on the machine and followed right after the foil attachment you would have an unloader so each 2 person crew should be able to do 500 pcs an hr easily. Four crews on one machine and that's 2,000 pcs/hr. If you have the business which some places out there swim in foil my point is doing it both ways inline with machine nets us so many more pcs in a day on big jobs with less labor for my shop it's worth it. With the right adhesive and curing technique the foil dulls only slightly but improves the wash by a ton compared to a heat pressed foil. We explain this to the customer if they question samples we show them and it's never been an issue but most of the foil prints we make are lines that we develop the art for and sell to retail so it's not as much of an issue. But what use to take multiple people a week to do is now done in a couple days with just a couple people now lol inline for us

[bimmridder]

I'm pretty sure ttwo is in the states. Ohio I believe

[ttwo0603]

Savings S.Roque vs. Manual.
$.13 per garment vs. $.31 per garment.
* 238% increase of productivity.
* 58% margin increase per unit
* 42% of the labor required to produce

The inline foil is pretty cool, but I just don't see how when running it through the dryer it isn't getting duller.  Anytime we run foil the the dryer it gets dull, no matter if it's A-magic, Crown, ect.

Also, keep in mind, I doubt that ttwo0603 is in the US, so his labour cost could be 15 workers running heat presses 8 hours a day for $196.20 total, all while their presses are rocking out 1000 pieces per hour, and the press isn't tied up running 30k pieces at the fastest below of 275 pieces per hour, or 109 hours non stop to complete the order.

What makes sense in the US, is totally different.  The benefit in the US is you can turn this order in 10-15 business days, and ordering overseas could take 4-6 weeks.

Different market, while the inline foil is rad, if labour costs is not such an issue, then inline foil takes away from production since you loose the opportunity to run another job faster, and be making money in two places.

Does the inline foil fit on any of the round presses, or only the oval presses?  Anytime I see an oval running, it looks like it is running so slow!

I am a Midwest print shop in OHIO, Go Bucks! But like mention above any time I have seen foil go down the dryer it gets tarnish, My customer wants bling and a bright foil look. Every time I seen videos or at ISS shows the inline foil press is moving so slow or even double hitting, I have yet to see a mass production foil job where they are flying thru it.  I just did a foil job a few weeks ago on a dark garment that required 3 flashes and 9 colors, I don't know how this would fit or work on a inline, But like I said when we are running a foil job we are averaging 4500 pieces a day,for a 30k job, 2 size grades set ups, I need to get that press back open ASAP, that takes me about 7 days to print, then at the same time as fast as I can print the shirts I have my press department pressing foil on, with 15 presses some of my employees I can assign one person to two presses and they move very quickly, once again with A-Magic foil I am able to foil some jobs at 6-8 seconds, that's a lot of shirts that get done very quickly. We do wash test and never had one failed wash test. And the whole time I am running a foil job I always have someone testing it to make sure all is going like it should, but really our foil jobs run so good its never ever a issue , A-Magic and Matsui work very well together.

[ttwo0603]

Here's some actual data from another company prior to us doing our ROI...... Our ROI is much more attractive then this as we are doing many more pcs per hour then the company who did this study.

Des. 7167 x 1,500pcs, printed on S-Roque machine vs. the same design printed on an automatic press + Hoss transfer station
(The same loader printed 1,500pcs of this design at different times: on the S-Roque and also the automatic)

S-Roque
Labour cost: $0.13 each imprint
Calculation: 3 workers x $12 x 5.45hrs = $196.20

Automatic Press w/ Manual Foil
Labor cost: $0.31 each imprint (2 step process)
Step 1: 3 workers x $12 x 2.12hrs = $76.32
Step 2 (transfer presses): 4 workers x $12 x 8.0hrs = $384.00
In Step 2: 4 workers produce 3 garments/minute, i.e. 180/hr
Total cost: $460.32

Our historical records of production rates for this foil design on the S-Roque are:-
Robert x 180pcs
Kim x 251pcs
Zhe x 275pcs

14 color automatic (adhesive only)
Zhe x 708pcs

Savings S.Roque vs. Manual.
$.13 per garment vs. $.31 per garment.
* 238% increase of productivity.
* 58% margin increase per unit
* 42% of the labor required to produce

Am I reading this correct you have the average pay of a 3 team press crew making 12 dollars a hour? That clearly isn't happening in my shop! And definitely not getting 12 dollars a hour to heat press anything

[DannyGruninger]

Re read I said those numbers are from another company. I have not put ours together yet but like I said inline works for us, maybe not all though. A while back we did a 9 color plus foil using 5 flashes on our oval. It ran 400 pcs per hour with one person on press and one person at the dryer catching.

[GaryG]

tt- how many employees do you have on 15 heat presses?
And round about wages there?

[Colin]

Looks like TT's shop is primarily contract and goes through A LOT of volume.  So the question is:  Does he make more money by running his presses while other employees are foiling with a heat press Vs. running inline foil.  We would need to know his shops numbers.....

Also, his customer could be THAT picky and he is getting a good price for his method.

Danny is combining multicolor art and foil (for most foil jobs).  I would personally want to avoid having to use a foil release additive to foil the prints he does.  Looking at his prints and how he has managed his finances/charges, I see his chosen path as being very profitable.  Imo, sounds like a different type of customer base.

2 different businesses, 2 different approaches that make each shop money.

[ttwo0603]

Looks like TT's shop is primarily contract and goes through A LOT of volume.  So the question is:  Does he make more money by running his presses while other employees are foiling with a heat press Vs. running inline foil.  We would need to know his shops numbers.....

Also, his customer could be THAT picky and he is getting a good price for his method.

Danny is combining multicolor art and foil (for most foil jobs).  I would personally want to avoid having to use a foil release additive to foil the prints he does.  Looking at his prints and how he has managed his finances/charges, I see his chosen path as being very profitable.  Imo, sounds like a different type of customer base.

2 different businesses, 2 different approaches that make each shop money.

Most of our foil jobs are multi color art. And yes we are a contract print shop that prints in high volume. And I put zero foil release additives in my colors, when printing foil jobs I use Matsui waterbase inks, they do have a top coat screen(foil release) that prints before the adhesive screen., its only one screen and that prevents foil sticking to the image. And sometimes if I am not using colors with a lot of pigments in it, I don't even need to use a top coat screen when printing.

But back to our process , I can run a average of 4500 a day on the press in print, and working with 10 to 12 heat presses I can foil 6500 to 7000 shirts a day, in less then 7 days I can print and foil 30k units. I have foiled 8k in a day on 10 presses before. That is the record for us.

[Maxie]

I don't want to change the post but if do that many foiled shirts per hour then how many regular plastisol prints can you do per hour?