PUSH OR PULL

[virgil427]

I voted push, and though  it's true, I am a convert, I remembered I only push on full sized (two handed) jobs. I still pull on small crest prints.

I didn't want to answer "both" because of the two-direction implication that asks for trouble.

"I'm with you fellers"

[mk162]

I only use the manual for 1 handed jobs.  Or I use the shower. 

Everything else gets done on das auto.

[3Deep]

For me it depends on the print, the ink and size of the job if I pull or push...on the most part I push when I,m not working on the auto.

Darryl

(Ice T sez, I,m your pusher man)

[Frog]

Okay, the answer "Both" needs some clarification.
Do you eight who clicked this choice mean sometimes pull and sometimes push (perhaps like my explanation) or do you actually both push and pull on the same print? (which I would warn newbies is a recipe for disaster)

[bimmridder]

I am assuming, although I know I shouldn't, that both would mean both styles, but not on the same print. Agreed, a recipe for problems if you did that.

[Catnhat]

Push plastisol, pull waterbase & discharge

[Dottonedan]

Here is a perspective from a guy who rarely prints any time in a given year.

I know we have a group of people that are pushing for the PUSH factor these days. Some of the "gurus's" also promote it.
When you look at those types of "guru's", they are generally those who cater to the NEW printers in regard to selling them product that they offer and are mostly a "manual type printer themselves. Most of their customers are manual printers.

I see pulling as being more consistent (when dealing with halftone printing). When you push, most of the pressure is at the front, as you reach the back, the pressure is eased up (even while you are trying to stay consistent in pressure across the print stroke.

So for the same reasons we need sharp squeegee's, level platens, and non warped frames, any time you deal with fine detail and need consistent prints on a wide area of consistent tone, it's more beneficial to print with a pull.

A tell tail test would be to print a fill of halftone at about 50lpi, 305 mesh with...70% solid halftone fill,  extend that image area out to your max print size.  Use black ink on white.  You will see where you're heaviest pressure is at or if you are consistent.

when pushing, you will end up leaving less pressure on the end as it gets further away from you (unless your order is only for 12 shirts).  You would think the same issues would apply if pulling, but you put your most pressure down when (starting). So if you start from the back and pull, you end up (closest to you) and therefore also are more apt to have a steadier amount of pressure verses pushing.

This, I will say, I don't know for a fact.   Just my common sense theory.

Do any of the AUTO's  (PUSH)?  That would be with the squeegee angle at the same angle, but going in the opposite direction?
As I see them in my memory, they pull. Can you change the direction of the stroke?

[JBLUE]

Here is a perspective from a guy who rarely prints any time in a given year.

I know we have a group of people that are pushing for the PUSH factor these days. Some of the "gurus's" also promote it.
When you look at those types of "guru's", they are generally those who cater to the NEW printers in regard to selling them product that they offer and are mostly a "manual type printer themselves. Most of their customers are manual printers.

I see pulling as being more consistent (when dealing with halftone printing). When you push, most of the pressure is at the front, as you reach the back, the pressure is eased up (even while you are trying to stay consistent in pressure across the print stroke.

So for the same reasons we need sharp squeegee's, level platens, and non warped frames, any time you deal with fine detail and need consistent prints on a wide area of consistent tone, it's more beneficial to print with a pull.

A tell tail test would be to print a fill of halftone at about 50lpi, 305 mesh with...70% solid halftone fill,  extend that image area out to your max print size.  Use black ink on white.  You will see where you're heaviest pressure is at or if you are consistent.

when pushing, you will end up leaving less pressure on the end as it gets further away from you (unless your order is only for 12 shirts).  You would think the same issues would apply if pulling, but you put your most pressure down when (starting). So if you start from the back and pull, you end up (closest to you) and therefore also are more apt to have a steadier amount of pressure verses pushing.

This, I will say, I don't know for a fact.   Just my common sense theory.

Do any of the AUTO's  (PUSH)?  That would be with the squeegee angle at the same angle, but going in the opposite direction?
As I see them in my memory, they pull. Can you change the direction of the stroke?

Good comments Dan. Very true.

[Frog]

As you said, Dan you have little hands-on experience.
Also, we in the trenches often get large solid areas to print as man does not live by halftones alone.

I think that for most manual printers the most common complaints or problems are getting tired, an/or getting uneven pressure and not clearing the screen. (Often the issues are connected)
These are the very issues that pushing seems to handle for us.
Rather than just wrists and elbows and the arm muscles, we have our whole bodies involved in the stroke now, using both our whole upper body as well as a step if we wish.

And yes, I push my 280 mesh 55 line halftone jobs as well.

[Shawn (EIP)]

I'm curious those that tried pushing and didnt like the outcome, was you pulling the print first before giving pushing a shot? I remember the first time I pushed I was in the middle of job and getting tired like Frog said and tried pushing. The result was a smeared print , but after cleaning the bottom and pushing again it was fine. Pushing is a godsend for those long pring runs even more so for thicker inks. 90% of my work is 12x18 or larger, pulling does a number on your arms and wrist.

[3Deep]

Okay, the answer "Both" needs some clarification.
Do you eight who clicked this choice mean sometimes pull and sometimes push (perhaps like my explanation) or do you actually both push and pull on the same print? (which I would warn newbies is a recipe for disaster)

Frog you are most correct pushing and pulling on the same job causes missprints, if I start a manual job pushing I stay pushing, if I start out pulling I continue to pull.  On soft squeegees pushing is allmost impossible atleast with the ones I have.

[Frog]

  On soft squeegees pushing is allmost impossible atleast with the ones I have.

Are you holding the squeegee as I show in my simple diagram, using the trailing edge, or are you reversing it and having it collapse?

[JayzTeez]

i answered both but not on the same print.

[prozyan]

Rather than just wrists and elbows and the arm arm muscles, we have our whole bodies involved in the stroke now, using both our whole upper body as well as a step if we wish.

This is what causes the problems with fine detail and halftones.  You are using bigger muscles to push, as well as body weight, so it is harder to fine tune the pressure needed.  Most say they feel they have more control while pulling, and this is true because it is easier to graduate your pressure in small increments while pulling.

That said, once you have learned how to push correctly, using the correct pressure, there is no difference in print quality between pushing and pulling.

[Dottonedan]

1, As you said, Dan you have little hands-on experience.

2, Also, we in the trenches often get large solid areas to print as man does not live by halftones alone.

1, Yes, I said that, but it doesn't mean I am saying that I don't know. An architect does not need to have first been a concrete mixer or have ran a jack hammer in order to know how to build sky scrapers. So, "hands on experience" doesn't means as much as the value we generally put on it and it doesn't mean that I am wrong or right. It's just my side.

2, Those in the trenches who "often" get large solid areas to print (would be a believer in the PUSH technique) since they are the ones that this would benefit the most. Any of the imperfections I mentioned above would be hidden and go unnoticed.  I am a believer that the push technique would be better for you ergonomically over longer print runs but I also believe that the over all production run would be less consistent with larger orders like a 6 color sim process of 144 or 500 shirts.  It's a trade off.

I think that the push or pull is a choice. Like using a 156 or a 230. Each can be used and can get the same results depending on how you play it. Using one does not mean you are wrong for not using the other.

With pushing and using a hard sharp squeegee (what most should be using for sim process) like a 70 or 70/90/70, keeping your squeegee angle at a very high angle or almost vertical (to cut the ink it) would be very difficult to maintain consistency over any duration. My hunch is that those who PUSH also push at a much more angled back position (sort of laying it down towards you) more so than you should. This high angle is easier to maintain when pulling.

That is with little to no on hands printing experience this year and is solid information.