Registration Systems

[Ryan]

I'm somewhat reviving an issue that has been dealt with in several different threads, but I'm trying to get a single place to see some answers. I think that just about all of us think that a reg system should be used, whether Tri-lock, pins etc. What I am trying to understand here is why some of you think 1 system works "better" than another or prefered system, especially if you have run more than one type. I have Pins for the SRoque and trying to wrap my head around why the clamp system (3 point/tri-loc type) would be better? Some here have known my lack of enthusiasm of my current system for 1 reason or another (not going to get into that), but can anyone here give some real benefits to either type of system? I use films, no DTS so keep that in mind because that obviously makes a difference in this discussion.
Thanks

[Shanarchy]

The problem with the pin systems is they rely on the press to have the micros absolutely 0'ed out. The new Eco's are being, or going to be, made where they can zero themselves. I believe some of the MHM's do this also. With that feature I think pins are better.

Without the system you're better off with a 3 point reg system which takes the zero'ing out of the equation.

Insert arguments against carrier sheets, human error, etc.

[Ryan]

did you get your system in yet?

[ZooCity]

What Shanarchy said.  If you can true zero a head, I can't see why pin would not be superior. 

I don't think it matters how a film, ink, wax, etc. positive is affixed to the screen so long as it is consistent screen to screen.  CTS just knocks down the human error on this side. 

[Shanarchy]

did you get your system in yet?

I just have the reg pallet right now. I'm going to order the PRU system tomorrow. I hope it works as good as I expect it to.

[sben763]

The Newman pin reg system doesn't depend on a zeroed head.  It's pin system works off the screen and 1 platen station.  So the head position doesn't matter.

[ZooCity]

Right,  talking bout presses with built in pin reg in the heads.  Newman is akin to tri lock but uses pins v. 3pt

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[Ryan]

even so its part of the dilemma I see, where is it better to have an external registration system, like a tri-loc, newman etc where you are not relying solely on having a press that is totally dialed in vs relying on the press it self, being in zero, to determine registration. There are human factors to all of this, but eliminating as many as possible is the ultimate goal and the least moving parts so to speak would make sense. My issue is that having 1, pins, and debating to move over to 3 point system, am I going to see the difference registering to 1 piece of equipment, the reg pallet, vs having 12 heads that are zeroed correctly, but potentially deal with the same issues that I currently see? Something tells me reg pallet makes more sense in this scenario, but it is also more work in set-up in this case...

[Shanarchy]

Ryan,

Why don't you wait until I get mine in and come down and check it out before you go through the whole process of swapping over. At least this way you'll know what your getting.

In theory, I'd take pins and self zero-ing heads first, traditional screen clamps and pallet jig second. But that is in theory and not from experience.

Have you talked to any other owners with the same set up as you? Or MHM owners with the models that don't self-zero? How off are you when you manually zero the heads? You should still be very close.

I'm very interested in how off are you.

[1964GN]

The owner of our shop has spoken with Ryan regarding his issues and it doesn't make any sense to us. I'll let him expand on is registration issues as I didn't not speak with directly. Something is not right though.

We have the pin system with the PRU and often have to micro. With that said, we are extremely close in most cases with only VERY minor micros needed. Yesterday we had a 3 color that didn't need micros... it was spot on.

We have narrowed down issue down to the film for the most part. There is also the possibility that when taping the film on the screen we are a tad off. We don't know if it's the printer, film, RIP, user PRU error or combination. We have run lots of tests and can't seem to pin it down exactly. There are way to many variables to be perfect every time with this set up.

I think the addition of CTS system would solve it. If we went to the 3 point system I don't think we would have vastly better results. CTS is the key here IMO.

[Shanarchy]

I think the addition of CTS system would solve it. If we went to the 3 point system I don't think we would have vastly better results. CTS is the key here IMO.

I started typing a post but never finished it. But the other side of the equation would more than likely be resolved with CTS. CTS, pins, and self zero-ing heads would have to be as near perfect as you can get as it should remove human error and only give two steps. It makes you think that could be a huge justification to the large price of CTS for a smaller shop.

[ZooCity]

The owner of our shop has spoken with Ryan regarding his issues and it doesn't make any sense to us. I'll let him expand on is registration issues as I didn't not speak with directly. Something is not right though.

We have the pin system with the PRU and often have to micro. With that said, we are extremely close in most cases with only VERY minor micros needed. Yesterday we had a 3 color that didn't need micros... it was spot on.

We have narrowed down issue down to the film for the most part. There is also the possibility that when taping the film on the screen we are a tad off. We don't know if it's the printer, film, RIP, user PRU error or combination. We have run lots of tests and can't seem to pin it down exactly. There are way to many variables to be perfect every time with this set up.

I think the addition of CTS system would solve it. If we went to the 3 point system I don't think we would have vastly better results. CTS is the key here IMO.

Do you think you'd have more no micro setups with self zeroing heads?

Film placement fpu style and even with carriers can be pretty darn accurate in my opinion.

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[1964GN]

I don't think self zeroing heads would be necessary/needed with CTS, pins or 3 point, once everything was dialed in. I don't have any data to back that up though. Just seems to make sense that once all of your heads are dialed into the CTS you would rarely have to touch a micro.

Film placement fpu style and even with carriers can be pretty darn accurate in my opinion.

I agree with this statement 100%. That's why we feel it's a film issue. Our films are randomly different lengths (and possibility widths?). Some times as much as 1 millimeter or more. It's something you never see on the light table with carrier sheets but you see it the second you place in on the PRU. Something we are still troubleshooting.

[Shanarchy]

1964GN, What are you using fro Pre-reg? You have a ROQ with pin heads, right? Are you using tri-loc or the ROQ PRU system?

[1964GN]

Pin system and the ROQ PRU