BIG Request/Favor

[alan802]

I'm asking if there is anyone out there that could do a simple, one color white DISCHARGE print or a sample print laying around that you can send to me so I can try and figure out what I need to do in regards to our DC printing.  I've recently been having some trouble with the most simple and basic of prints that are only white discharge prints and without going down the line on how we do every step I can tell you we've been doing things the same way for several years and only recently have our prints been below my standards.  We went almost a year without doing any DC work and as our plastisol printing has progressed nicely maybe our DC work has gone the opposite direction or maybe I'm not being realistic on what our DC prints should look like.  I'm kind of wondering if my standards are too high, also just how our latest prints stack up against shops that do a lot more DC work than we do. 

The last few sample prints I've done for customers that were interested in going to a DC ink have not washed well, therefore the customer didn't elect for DC.  We've been doing less and less DC work over the last year, and it's entirely possible that we suck at it now, but I feel that something else is going on. 

I understand if nobody wants to send a print and have some crazy guy inspecting and judging it with a microscope but I'm trying to get more perspective on what constitutes a good and bad DC print.  I want to look at the print when it's slightly stretched out, how deep and the volume of ink applied, opacity, overall look and feel, etc.  I'm not going to look at it like I would a plastisol print because quite frankly I'm not that into DC and don't feel as confident with it so there would not be any "judging" someone's ability or anything like that.  It's sad that I don't know DC prints like plastisol and it should be easy to judge the two the same way but I still think if I can see some prints from guys who do it a lot it might help me get this thing right or maybe we're already right.  Even if someone had a test print laying around that was right before a print run or if were doing a print run of white DC and could throw an extra test tube or material on there and send it my way.  I'll gladly pay the shipping, PM me or email me if you decide to "help a brother out".

I'll gladly trade some plastisol prints if anyone would like to see our stuff and even send some of our bad stuff that I keep around for some odd reason.

[TCT]

I will send you a few of you want

[ericheartsu]

i can send you a tee that we did that has DC, WB, and HSA, if that helps?

[jvanick]

I have some test stuff laying around too that I can send over.

[Colin]

Alan:  If it has not washed well I would look at 1) the garment - Is it coated with anything?  2) Are additives needed in your inks for penetration etc 3) Are you curing the garment properly.

Other than that, I know that you know how to print any ink that comes your way

[mimosatexas]

I can bring over some of my stuff if you want.  I wear (and wash) my own designs all the time.  Which DC white are you using and what are you printing on?  mesh? additives? etc...

[alan802]

Sorry I didn't see any of this until now.  Awesome, I'll PM you guys first thing in the morning.  Had a rough afternoon.  I was down one full-timer and my part-timer has today off and we had to let our receiving guy go today so I've been running around putting out fires all afternoon!  I do appreciate it, and let me know if I can be of assistance to any of you guys.

I can bring over some of my stuff if you want.  I wear (and wash) my own designs all the time.  Which DC white are you using and what are you printing on?  mesh? additives? etc...

Matsui Brite DC White and CCI D-white, 150/48 and 225/40 the last run of samples I did.  I've gone as low as 120/54 but 225 is as high as I've gone.  No additives, just activator and I usually soak the activator in water to break it down and mix easier with the ink.

I've played with the dryer settings A LOT!  I've tried the extreme settings on both ends and many in between.  I've changed all the parameters except the activator.  It's the only thing that has been the same since I've started having problems.  Any chance that could be the issue?  Oh, and I've used %'s from 6-10% activator with the Matsui but have only used 6% on the CCI.  Haven't gone lower than 6% for the white but normally go lower on colors, we just haven't done any colors in a long time.

[jvanick]

fyi, we get better results with a 75% Matsui Bright White Discharge + 25% Matsui Bright Discharge Base mix than with the straight Bright White.... we target 5% activator, but sometimes it's 4.5% or 5.5%....  it's a touch less 'brilliant' white and maybe a just a very bit yellowish, but it washes and lasts better than the 100% bright white discharge.

[JBLUE]

Sorry I didn't see any of this until now.  Awesome, I'll PM you guys first thing in the morning.  Had a rough afternoon.  I was down one full-timer and my part-timer has today off and we had to let our receiving guy go today so I've been running around putting out fires all afternoon!  I do appreciate it, and let me know if I can be of assistance to any of you guys.

I can bring over some of my stuff if you want.  I wear (and wash) my own designs all the time.  Which DC white are you using and what are you printing on?  mesh? additives? etc...

Matsui Brite DC White and CCI D-white, 150/48 and 225/40 the last run of samples I did.  I've gone as low as 120/54 but 225 is as high as I've gone.  No additives, just activator and I usually soak the activator in water to break it down and mix easier with the ink.

I've played with the dryer settings A LOT!  I've tried the extreme settings on both ends and many in between.  I've changed all the parameters except the activator.  It's the only thing that has been the same since I've started having problems.  Any chance that could be the issue?  Oh, and I've used %'s from 6-10% activator with the Matsui but have only used 6% on the CCI.  Haven't gone lower than 6% for the white but normally go lower on colors, we just haven't done any colors in a long time.

Here are a couple of things for you to look at.

1. How old is the ink? It does have a shelf life. Depending on the brand that shelf life varies.

2. How old is the activator?

3. Get away from the low mesh. You do not need to use anything really belpw a 180 unless your doing sweats. Then maybe drop it to a 160. A 150-s will lay down way too much ink. Contrary to popular belief you do not need to soak the garment. With discharge there is such a thing as too much ink. Anymore than a 50% penetration into the shirt is a waste of ink and is over saturating the garment.

4. What garments are giving you the trouble?

5. Throw the CCI in the trash. It sucks. Unless you want the bone white look. Which is what we use it for when that look is what is desired by our customer.

6. Dont get it too hot in the dryer. That can affect the whites optical brightness as well.

I can send you some stuff too if you would like. Just let me know.

[Screened Gear]

Sorry I didn't see any of this until now.  Awesome, I'll PM you guys first thing in the morning.  Had a rough afternoon.  I was down one full-timer and my part-timer has today off and we had to let our receiving guy go today so I've been running around putting out fires all afternoon!  I do appreciate it, and let me know if I can be of assistance to any of you guys.

I can bring over some of my stuff if you want.  I wear (and wash) my own designs all the time.  Which DC white are you using and what are you printing on?  mesh? additives? etc...

Matsui Brite DC White and CCI D-white, 150/48 and 225/40 the last run of samples I did.  I've gone as low as 120/54 but 225 is as high as I've gone.  No additives, just activator and I usually soak the activator in water to break it down and mix easier with the ink.

I've played with the dryer settings A LOT!  I've tried the extreme settings on both ends and many in between.  I've changed all the parameters except the activator.  It's the only thing that has been the same since I've started having problems.  Any chance that could be the issue?  Oh, and I've used %'s from 6-10% activator with the Matsui but have only used 6% on the CCI.  Haven't gone lower than 6% for the white but normally go lower on colors, we just haven't done any colors in a long time.

Here are a couple of things for you to look at.

1. How old is the ink? It does have a shelf life. Depending on the brand that shelf life varies.

2. How old is the activator?

3. Get away from the low mesh. You do not need to use anything really belpw a 180 unless your doing sweats. Then maybe drop it to a 160. A 150-s will lay down way too much ink. Contrary to popular belief you do not need to soak the garment. With discharge there is such a thing as too much ink. Anymore than a 50% penetration into the shirt is a waste of ink and is over saturating the garment.

4. What garments are giving you the trouble?

5. Throw the CCI in the trash. It sucks. Unless you want the bone white look. Which is what we use it for when that look is what is desired by our customer.

6. Dont get it too hot in the dryer. That can affect the whites optical brightness as well.

I can send you some stuff too if you would like. Just let me know.

I agree is jason here. I do use CCI and my whites are fine. I know some guys get brighter white but for what I am doing CCI is great.

One question I have is did you manually print the samples. If you did, did you pull or push. If you pull manually and not modify your ink you will leave a thick ink deposit on top of the shirt. This is hard to dry and will also come off in the wash. You should be modifying the ink with atleast 3 to 5 percent water. I use much more. My customers don't want that dry chalky print.

I also took a break from DC but this last week did a 500 and a 365 order bother with 3 prints.

[ebscreen]

Alan one thing I'll mention is to run some tests on navy blanks. They always discharge the best
and pretty much across the board as far as brands/weights, etc. Some companies use cheap dyes
for black that no matter what brand ink you use or how you modify it will never discharge to a pure white.

That said, the whitest white I've seen in ten years is HSA hands down. The fiber matte down is incredible.

[jvanick]

That said, the whitest white I've seen in ten years is HSA hands down. The fiber matte down is incredible.

100% agree.

[alan802]

1.  I used some CCI that was about 5-6 months old.  Then bought a brand new gallon of Matsui.

2.  The activator is about a year old.

3.  I was going in the right direction but stalled out when the prints on the 225 were causing the same problems but were also less opaque before washing.  I backed off and went back to a 150 but have plenty of 180's and 225's (the bulk of our current inventory is 180 and 225).

4.  I've got about 25 different brands and styles at my disposal and the latest shirt that the customer wanted to try DC on is a forest green Canvas.  The last round of testing was all on the manual and I did some American Apparel black, Alternative Apparel Navy, Gildan Heavy Cotton Black, and I believe I had an LAT Black but I can't find it laying around.

5.  Roger that.  I've preferred the Matsui due to it's brightness and it doesn't dry up in the stencil "as bad" as the CCI did but it's still not great in that regard. 

6.  I also noticed the hotter I got the dryer the worse the washing out became.  I thought my best results came with the dryer at 320 and 90 second dwell time but it was very hard to decipher the differences unless it was the lowest test temps or the higher levels I got to.  Was going to ask is there a point where we're damaging the print with heat/time or if it's simply just a matter of evaporation? 

I'd say most of the samples I've done were pulled on the manual but I did do the push on a few to deliberately put down less ink.  I will continue to get further in depth with the testing and recently I haven't been testing things like I normally do but more of informal methods hoping that I would figure something out quickly and it would be easier than it has been.  I'll have some time next week to lay it all out and record and measure everything more properly so I can dial in where my best results are coming from.

I appreciate the input, I've got some things to work with.

[JBLUE]

1.  I used some CCI that was about 5-6 months old.  Then bought a brand new gallon of Matsui.

2.  The activator is about a year old.

3.  I was going in the right direction but stalled out when the prints on the 225 were causing the same problems but were also less opaque before washing.  I backed off and went back to a 150 but have plenty of 180's and 225's (the bulk of our current inventory is 180 and 225).

4.  I've got about 25 different brands and styles at my disposal and the latest shirt that the customer wanted to try DC on is a forest green Canvas.  The last round of testing was all on the manual and I did some American Apparel black, Alternative Apparel Navy, Gildan Heavy Cotton Black, and I believe I had an LAT Black but I can't find it laying around.

5.  Roger that.  I've preferred the Matsui due to it's brightness and it doesn't dry up in the stencil "as bad" as the CCI did but it's still not great in that regard. 

6.  I also noticed the hotter I got the dryer the worse the washing out became.  I thought my best results came with the dryer at 320 and 90 second dwell time but it was very hard to decipher the differences unless it was the lowest test temps or the higher levels I got to.  Was going to ask is there a point where we're damaging the print with heat/time or if it's simply just a matter of evaporation? 

I'd say most of the samples I've done were pulled on the manual but I did do the push on a few to deliberately put down less ink.  I will continue to get further in depth with the testing and recently I haven't been testing things like I normally do but more of informal methods hoping that I would figure something out quickly and it would be easier than it has been.  I'll have some time next week to lay it all out and record and measure everything more properly so I can dial in where my best results are coming from.

I appreciate the input, I've got some things to work with.

Activator is bad as well most likely the CCI ink too. The activator can be loose and not hardened up and still be bad. The only way to know if it is bad is to use it. I would bed top dollar that is your main issue.

Your CCI ink has more resin in it that the Matsui. Thats why the matsui does not dry out. Even though it is waterbase there are still some resins that get put in the bases when they are made.

Your washout issues could be due to the bad white you used. Get yourself some Fixer N or Fixer F. That will really help with your wash fastness.