Computer...meet floor!

[mimosatexas]

i will second what pierre is saying.  he turned me onto Thinkstations a while back, they freaking run.  I have built systems myself, I've had systems built, but nothing compares to the reliability of a Thinkstation.  Heck, the processors are Xeon, which are server grade.  On many of the systems you buy for $600-$1000 the video cards alone are worth twice that.  Pair that with ECC RAM and everything else they use and they are awesome systems.

Sorry, but no...

You are still paying someone a premium to build a computer you can also build easily yourself for less money using identical parts.  There is nothing special about one brand of prebuilt computer vs another when they are literally all using the same internal hardware.  The differences are cosmetic (the case), and what bloatware they load on the OS.  If you want a top of the line Thinkstation for less money look here: http://shop.lenovo.com/ae/en/workstations/thinkstation/d-series/d30/#tab-tech_specs, pick the parts you want, and put it together on pcpartpicker while upgrading or downgrading as you see fit for your needs, buy, build, and done.  You will save a lot of money in the end.

The funny thing these days is this pretty much even extends to Mac's these days since they are using intel components.  You can build a hackintosh that is faster than available prebuilt macs for much less, though you have to be a bit more knowledgeable due to issues that pop up on the hardware side...

I built my computer two years ago, and got a black friday deal on a top of the line Xeon processor at the time for $70 less than they are currently selling for even though I bought it two years ago when they were new.  I think it was close to half off the standard pricing at the time.  I spent $1500 at the time, including 3 1080p monitors, all new peripherals including 7.1 surround sound, shipping, etc.  The closest specced machine I could find prebuilt at the time was running nearly $3.5k for just the box (during black friday even...), no monitors or peripherals.  pcpartpicker alone saved me almost $700 on specific sites' black friday deals and coupon codes and links to manufacturer rebates...I have yet to bog this beast down.

[Gilligan]

Those Thinkstations aren't bad for those that don't want to get their hands dirty.

It's not the insane markup that most charge for lesser machines.

I build PC's as part of my living... it's SUPER easy... but at the same time, my brother, who is a database genius.... barely can hook up the tower to the peripherals.  Some people it just doesn't click for.  I don't get databases in almost the same way he doesn't get hardware.

I 100% agree with you that you can save money by building yourself... but some would rather spend the extra 200-400 and be done with it.  That's how I make my living.

Also there are many tweaks that go into setting up a system PROPERLY.  So much so that I keep a check list for various styles of builds (AMD vs INTEL, SSD vs Platter) as I can't remember it all.

[mimosatexas]

I agree to a certain extent, though unless you are building a pretty low end machine, that $200-400 is more like $600-800+ in my experience.  For a basic computer that will run Office and lets you browse the internet, sure go for the prebuilt if you have no experience.  For something with ample power to run Adobe without any slowdowns, render the odd video or 3D model, or truly multitask, you are going to spend a lot more on a prebuilt.  Hell, if you don't want to build it yourself, buy the parts and pay a flat fee for someone like Gilligan to put it together.

[GraphicDisorder]

water cooling, etc.

Annnnnnnnnd ish just real!
Never done water cooling myself, that's some serious stuff!

Bought all the fixings for one of the last computers online for in store pick up. When I went in to get it, the kid that brought it all to the register said "woah, that's a serious gaming rig bro!" Ahhhhh yes, that reminded me why I enjoy buying online for delivery!

Ya its just a plug and play unit, easy to install closed loop.  Make sure if you do one in the future you dont by a case thats super small they are hard to find enough room in smaller cases.  But they are quiet keep the cpu cool!

[Gilligan]

I used a Rosewill Challenger U3... not a "small" case, but clearly not enough.

[GraphicDisorder]

I used a Rosewill Challenger U3... not a "small" case, but clearly not enough.

They can be a bitch to get enough room in some cases.  I use a NZXT on 3 of our rigs and some Corsair cases on some others.  I did just notice I lost 2gb off one of my ram chips. Thats first hardware issue ive had outside a hard drive in about 10 years lol. 

[Gilligan]

It's probably on a chip that never even sees any usage with as much RAM as you put in the system. :p

[blue moon]

Those Thinkstations aren't bad for those that don't want to get their hands dirty.

It's not the insane markup that most charge for lesser machines.

I build PC's as part of my living... it's SUPER easy... but at the same time, my brother, who is a database genius.... barely can hook up the tower to the peripherals.  Some people it just doesn't click for.  I don't get databases in almost the same way he doesn't get hardware.

I 100% agree with you that you can save money by building yourself... but some would rather spend the extra 200-400 and be done with it.  That's how I make my living.

Also there are many tweaks that go into setting up a system PROPERLY.  So much so that I keep a check list for various styles of builds (AMD vs INTEL, SSD vs Platter) as I can't remember it all.

We've debate the finer points of building your own before and from what I know, Gilligan and myself are the only two that did (or in his case still do) work with computers for living. I also have a computer engineering background and at one point could design the chips going into the motherboard. Also was an IBM partner and had 12K square feet of computers and parts in the warehouse, 3 levels high. Before that, I set up repair departments for computer resale shops. Before that, I owned a computer networking company servicing local cities and corporate clients. All of this to give some perspective on where I am coming from.

And agree almost completely with Gilligan. Putting computers together is easy. Almost anybody can get a screen with a stencil and push some ink through it. That does not meant it's a great print. How thick is the deposit, will it wash out, are the lines clean, how fine of a dot can you hold and so on . . . Same with computers. Fine tuning the system for the components in it is a job that requires a lot of research and is a job for a professional like Gilly. Home built boxes often sacrifice reliability for performance and for business use it should be the other way around. Lenovo spends MILLIONS of dollars testing and certifying the hardware on the Thinkstations. Our boxes here run an average of a year before needing a reboot. These are computers designed for continuous heavy duty utilization where crashing and incompatibility are not an option. Then as the patches are released to the OS and software they find solutions to any issues and post results with fixes. I have spent days trying to track down intermittent issues on some custom boxes where when it was an IBM all I had to do was check the site and download the patch. Prebuilt boxes also come with support. To those of us that can fix it, this might not be worth much. But in all honesty, I actually pay an IT company to monitor and service our computers (mix of out of warranty Dell desktops and Lenovo workstations and servers) if needed as I just don't have the time any more.

So to recap, yes, you can build your own and will save up to 20% which can be a lot of money. The boxes I linked to are a good balance of performance, cost and stability. Even the regular computers by the big companies will have higher reliability then the average home built box. And it comes with added benefit of having support if you need it. For a little less money and when less RnD funding is needed, call Gilly and he'll set  you up with a properly configured box. Hobby  printers normally don't have the resource and ability to produce what an organized auto shop will do. My home computer is home built, but the work stuff I leave to professionals. . .

pierre

[blue moon]

I agree to a certain extent, though unless you are building a pretty low end machine, that $200-400 is more like $600-800+ in my experience.  For a basic computer that will run Office and lets you browse the internet, sure go for the prebuilt if you have no experience.  For something with ample power to run Adobe without any slowdowns, render the odd video or 3D model, or truly multitask, you are going to spend a lot more on a prebuilt.  Hell, if you don't want to build it yourself, buy the parts and pay a flat fee for someone like Gilligan to put it together.

for Office and Internet, buy the $99-$149 Dell refurb from Micro Center or some place like it. You can't build half a computer with Operating System for that money.
Same with high end, buy refurb or end of life from manufacturer, you save money and get a good box. You avoid paying the premium for the latest and greatest, but still get good enough performance with high reliability.

pierre

[Gilligan]

I agree to a certain extent, though unless you are building a pretty low end machine, that $200-400 is more like $600-800+ in my experience.  For a basic computer that will run Office and lets you browse the internet, sure go for the prebuilt if you have no experience.  For something with ample power to run Adobe without any slowdowns, render the odd video or 3D model, or truly multitask, you are going to spend a lot more on a prebuilt.  Hell, if you don't want to build it yourself, buy the parts and pay a flat fee for someone like Gilligan to put it together.

The system that Pierre pointed out only cost $685... I don't see how you can build a system like that and SAVE $600-800+ unless those parts fell off the back of a truck. :p

[Screen Dan]

As an ex IT guy of over a decade I would highly recommend against any unnecessary updating of production equipment.  So long as you are getting all security updates for your current operating system I'd advise against any non-essential upgrades.

Once something works and continues working, in a production environment, making any non-essential changes is playing with fire.

...now, my CTS with XP on it?  Gotta do something about that soon.

[Frog]

Do these particular factory refurbs come with the same freshly installed bloat and sleazeware that seem to be Lenovo's current trademark and among the worst in the industry with their consumer PC's and laptops?
I just needed to buy a mid priced laptop and avoided Lenovo on this principle.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2978021/microsoft-subnet/lenovo-bloatware-firmware-pcs.html

[blue moon]

Do these particular factory refurbs come with the same freshly installed bloat and sleazeware that seem to be Lenovo's current trademark and among the worst in the industry with their consumer PC's and laptops?
I just needed to buy a mid priced laptop and avoided Lenovo on this principle.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2978021/microsoft-subnet/lenovo-bloatware-firmware-pcs.html

Workstations will generally have less, but it will still be there. Yes, you will have to go and delete/uninstall stuff. . . Some will eventually end up staying and use up your cycles.

pierre

[Gilligan]

Use something like Revo Uninstaller to get rid of the junk as it digs deeper.

[GraphicDisorder]

It's probably on a chip that never even sees any usage with as much RAM as you put in the system. :p

I use most of it too, I like not closing programs