Mlink in the building.

[Gilligan]

Sorry that you feel I'm being argumentative.  I certainly am not trying to be.

Food for thought as well.  Waste tank on that brother has wasted a bunch more ink as well than the M&R so that could be more good info.  If one is wasting more ink as well... That's money going in the drain.

Exactly, they want to sell you INK more than the machine!  That is one thing I can't stand about printer companies.

[GraphicDisorder]

You are dead right there.  They are really in the ink business.

[bulldog]

Oh yeah, what is the daily/weekly maintenance like on both machines? That is one thing that turned me off to brother before was I heard it was crazy expensive, you have to do a ton of ink flushes and what not. I'm curious to what you've seen since you say that waste bottle is filling up fast.

[bulldog]

What are the print areas of either machine?

[CSPGarrett]

If I remember right the Mlink is using a Ricoh head using the new dupont ink made for it (not the epson artisan version).  A good epson DX5 head machine should have similar ink costs to what you are seeing on the Mlink for the black print above.

The biggest thing I want to see with the Mlink is the life span of the Ricoh head since they are made for this long use.  The best machine to compare the Mlink to would be the new Belquette machine coming out at 35,000.  This would be more like comparing apples to apples.

Also, lawson did sell a similar looking version of this machine years ago (I don't think it was a ricoh head).

The awesome part is that the head is staggered allowing for proper one pass printing.  I would also like to see how far you can push the artwork automation with scripting.

The Belquette machine I have a sample off of, the new one. It was awesome print other than heavy banding in orange.

I wouldn't be surprised since they are still tweaking the settings.  But the print speed is going to be fast.

[CSPGarrett]

The biggest variable (unless I didn't see the photos right) is that the print time is about the same.  When I review our pricing the variable we use is time since dtg printers will run the same print time (within seconds) time and time again.  So no matter what the machine if running the same or similar designs (bulk run or one offs) you will only output so many CC's of ink per hour.

When we used to look at just ink cost the difference of a "black" shirt setting and "color" shirt setting could be $0.50-$1.00 with dupont ink.

Yes, that that may seem like a lot but only $6.00 to $12.00 per machine per hour.  More money is lost in production inefficiency and scrap prints since you can't gain that time back and overtime hours don't mix well with most dtg pricing structures unless running multiple machines.

Ink cost for both the brother and mlink should differ since they are completely different inks, brother's ink per CC is just way to high for us to reason in a fulfillment/production environment.

Yes, the new dupont ink for the ricoh head is more expensive per liter (more like what old dupont ink prices had been) but I do believe you get better cure times on it and also better white ink bonding with the pre-treat to allow for one pass printing.

With Mlink being bulk ink and brother being cartridge the ink prices also will never be the same. BUT the one thing to come out of this would be which machine has the easiest and most efficient start-up and shut down procedures and which has a higher "general" maintenance cost (think cleaning solutions, cleaning supplies, and consumable parts on the machine).

Every dtg niche has the right machine to fit the printers need but making sure your buying the right one is key. 

Also in regard to the Belquette price I do believe it's 27K but may go slightly up last I heard.


How heavy was the Mlink?  Also having a computer and software come with it is so much nicer.

[bulldog]

Hey Garrett, are you basically getting 12 prints per hour on darks? You are running the Mod1 right?

[CSPGarrett]

Hey Garrett, are you basically getting 12 prints per hour on darks? You are running the Mod1 right?

I actually run FreeJets. I just know a little bit about Mod and such since I did a lot of research for a second time (after I already bought FreeJets) before expanding dtg even further into our bigger MD facility.

The actual print speed of 12 per hour really depends on a lot of variables but with all of that drama aside here is what I have found and it should pertain to most DX5 epson print head dtg machines running dupont (or similar) ink on a 1800 - 2000's engine.

- Average shirt speed on darks is 12 per hour if going smooth or 4.5 minutes per print. Depending on your rip and how you set up your machine you can run faster.  But the key is the resolution you print, you can reduce ink costs with settings but 1440x1440 dpi is a standard setting as well as 1440x720 (may get banding). 

IF your machine has the ability on the CMYK pass to only "print" the area that has ink deposit and not have to travel the full shaft you can now actually save time, from the average resolution above.  I was told Mod's new upgrade has it and our newest machines in MD have it.  This does cut times down on graphics that may have a 12 inch circle in white (1440 DPI with 0% highlight white) and on the CMYK pass it is just a red tiny circle in the center.  It will allow the machine to move MUCH faster. 

Factory settings I would say 10-14 are a good average per hour.  This is with a diligent quick exchange system.  We make sure the platen can be taken right off and placed in front of each machine and the next one just lifted and on.  It drastically will reduce turnover time per shirt and increase your shirts per hour (must make up time somewhere).


 - Average shirt speed on lights is anywhere from 1/3 to many times more than 1/2 quicker per hour (gross amount of shirts) than dark shirts..  Depending on your resolution, print settings, and so forth it can get pretty high.  A standard setting without pre-treat is two passes of 720x720 dpi to allow the cmyk to settle into the white shirt fabric, this helps reduce bleeding.

It really is up to the rip though, the rip is the make or break I believe of all dtg machines.  Even with 0% highlight white and 100% base we still get pooling in our ink and have to done it down.

[bulldog]

Awesome info, thanks Garrett!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[GraphicDisorder]

If I remember right the Mlink is using a Ricoh head using the new dupont ink made for it (not the epson artisan version).  A good epson DX5 head machine should have similar ink costs to what you are seeing on the Mlink for the black print above.

The biggest thing I want to see with the Mlink is the life span of the Ricoh head since they are made for this long use.  The best machine to compare the Mlink to would be the new Belquette machine coming out at 35,000.  This would be more like comparing apples to apples.

Also, lawson did sell a similar looking version of this machine years ago (I don't think it was a ricoh head).

The awesome part is that the head is staggered allowing for proper one pass printing.  I would also like to see how far you can push the artwork automation with scripting.

The Belquette machine I have a sample off of, the new one. It was awesome print other than heavy banding in orange.

I wouldn't be surprised since they are still tweaking the settings.  But the print speed is going to be fast.

Fast is good if it's quality.  If it's a banded reject then no good for my needs. 

[GraphicDisorder]

What are the print areas of either machine?

Not positive of max image area yet.  Machines came with smaller pallets than we will eventually use.  We already have the larger 16x20 pallet for the brother to install.  The M&R larger one just shipped as well.  So the ink numbers I've been sharing will go up as the print size will be 15x17 probably so a customer will get same print size off these as off our auto.  Our market would laugh at a 12x12 for a large back.  So that won't work for us. 

[pwalsh]

Are there any third party RIPs that could be used with the Brother that would be more efficient?

Availability of 3rd Party RIP Solutions for Brother GT- Series DTG Printers.  Brother’s strategy with their DTG printing equipment, going all the way back to the industry changing GT-541 printer has been to deliver a DTG printing solution that provides reliability and predictability, combined with ease of use and image processing capabilities.  The primary way that Brother has achieved these objectives is to supply the machine with an intuitive and robust printer driver versus using a full scale RIP solution.

The disadvantage of this approach is that the print driver only enables a limited range of image optimization and color management corrections, whereas a more sophisticated RIP offers a much greater level of flexibility.  I have been in contact with the Technical Team at Brother, and have been advised that there is a high performing 3rd Party RIP solution for the GT Series of printers available from CADLink called;  Digital Factory Apparel RIP for Brother GT printers (DFA). 

In addition to the color management and ink usage optimization, the DFA RIP is reported to achieve significant improvements in printer production.  You can download a trial version (full features, but limited to a specific period of time) of DFA from this page - https://www.cadlink.com/index.php/en-us/digital-factory-apparel-brother-edition.  There is also a link to the brochure and user guide at the bottom of the page.  In addition CADLink also created some videos for this product that are definitely worth watching;  https://youtu.be/m0MRzJsSmiE & . https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1PwfsU_n8C_2j5jdFW2LTw/videos

I realize that you already have a lot invested in this head-to-head DTG printer comparison, but if you are interested in further reviewing enhanced color management, ink usage, and image optimization, I’d recommend that you download and review the trial version of DFA from CADLink. Let me know if you decide that DFA is something that you are interested in for Graphic Disorder, and we can talk about how Nazdar SourceOne can partner with you in obtaining this solution.

[pwalsh]

Brandt:  Thanks for posting this valuable information regarding performance, print quality, and operating (ink) cost differences between the M&R M-Link and Brother GT-381 DTG Printers.  I don't think that anyone has ever been so fully “engaged” in this level of comparative side-by-side testing and reported on the differences between both of these machines to the level that you have in this thread.  I expect that as you get more hours and garments on both machines, you will eventually “marry” all of the information that you develop into a recommendation of the best DTG print solution to ensure that Graphic Disorder lives “happily ever after.”   

I’d like to provide some input on both printers and the DTG process, although I’m a little bit challenged given that Nazdar SourceOne maintains significant relationships with both M&R and Brother.  With that said,  I’m going to try the “fair and balanced approach” to share some information with you based on what I know of both systems.  The first place that I’d like to start is to compare some of the key printer performance metrics:

Printer List Price:  Brother GT-381 $24,999 – M&R M-Link $39,995 - Advantage Brother
Lease Cost 36 Month Term – Estimated Monthly payment GT-381 $772 Per Month - M-Link $1,236 - Advantage Brother 
$436 Monthly payment difference = Approximately $24 per production day 

Production Speed:  Based on your most recent testing both machines are comparable – Advantage Even
(Note:  M&R M-Link X would be considerably faster, but at a higher cost)

Ink Volume Usage:     Although your initial testing has shown that ink usage on the M-Link is lower than the GT-381, I would argue that the higher ink usage of the GT-381 is the result of the Bother unit using a simple printer driver vs. the sophisticated RIP that powers the M-Link.  The reality is that the chemistry of the ink used in both the Brother and the M&R DTG printers is very similar, and the ink volume usage on a properly color corrected image printed on both machines is going to be comparable. – Advantage Even

Benefits of using a Printer Driver vs. a RIP:  In the initial start-up and operator training, the ease of use afforded by Brother’s simple printer driver is an advantage, although it comes at the cost of having limited color management and image optimization tools.  o   Longer term the image optimization, color, and ink management options available from RIP supplied with the M&R M-Link will outshine the initial ease of use advantage offered by the Brother Printer Driver.  (Please see my comments on CADLink DFA in previous post)  Short Term Advantage Brother, Longer Term Advantage M-Link

Service & Support:  While M&R could be considered a “recent entry” to the DTG printer segment the company has, established an extremely strong reputation over an almost 30 year period in supporting the equipment they manufacture. Additionally the experience that M&R has gained by selling, installing, and supporting almost 500 of I-Image STE CTS Screen Imaging and Exposure systems has enabled the company to develop a skilled base of inkjet savvy development engineers, applications specialists, sales specialists and service technicians.  Contrast  M&R’s capabilities with the track record of Brother Corporation, as a company that is fully committed to the DTG market segment.  From the game changing GT-541, to the high performance GT-782, and onto the current GT-Series printers Brother Corporation has developed a stellar reputation as a full system integrator that delivers equipment that provides many years of predictable and trouble free performance. I’m going out on a limb and calling this one – Advantage Even

The Biggest Difference – Ink Pricing:
o   Brother CMYK Inks for GT series printers $194.67 per 380CC Cartridge = $0.52 per CC
o   M&R CMYK Inks for M-Link printers $229.00 per 1 Liter of bulk ink        = $0.23 per CC
o   Brother White Inks for GT series printers $153.18 per 380CC Cartridge = $0.40 per CC
o   M&R White Inks for M-Link printers $249.00 per 1 Liter of bulk ink        = $0.25 per CC

Raw Ink Pricing Summary
o   Brother CMYK inks are +$0.28 per CC or 2.2 times the cost of M-Link CMYK inks 
o   Brother White inks are +$0.15 per CC or 1.6 times the cost of M-Link White ink 

The Bottom Line:
o   The cost differential of a moderate ink using customer purchasing more than a total (6) Cartridges of Brother inks in a month (2) x C.M.Y. or K inks & (4) x White would offset the higher monthly lease payment for the more expensive M&R M-Link Printer
As the volume of ink usage increases, the cost of the ink becomes an increasingly significant factor 

[Frog]

Where do third party inks fit into the equation?

[bulldog]

Great info from everyone here. It is very interesting to me especially since I've just joined the DTG ranks. Mine is an epson mod so basically the same print area as a 13x19 film. Perfect for me, but not for Brandt. So the larger print areas of the two being compared here will definitely be a significant advantage to some people.

I think what makes this thread so great is usually when someone gets a DTG, they're not going to get another of a different brand, at least not right away. So rarely would you have the opportunity to do side-by-side comparisons.

So thanks again to Brandt for taking the time to do this.