Green Machine disdain

[californiadreamin]

What Gives?
I think it is a problem that the industry, in the United States has had for a long time. A Shrinking Screen print market
In the USA both in Graphic And Textile with not a lot of competition until recently. The Ones that "have" want to hold on
to what they have, and technology in manufacturing and internet communications have created "new" opportunities to the
USA market for "newcomers" (Roq) as well as "oldcomers" (Workhorse with the "sabre' press). Roq is a serious contender!
They have new ownership with new money and a Great Product Line. They are coming in to the US market, and will take their
share. No doubt about it. They are VERY strong in the international markets and the US is "gravy" for them. Vice versa for US
manufacturers. They now have to compete In international market to sustain their size and hope for growth, In a VERY competitive world. That being said, I think "people" get nervous when change is in the mist. I agree with Peter! A good salesman
should sell the benefits of their offerings and refrain from ugliness. Customers are a lot smarter than some give credit. I for
one will not do business with anyone, if possible that shows bad traits!
winston

Winston:  This is one of those posts where I wish there was a LIKE button! 

I hope that you are keeping well, and that we can catch up in Long Beach next month.

Peter! Would love to catch up in Long Beach.
As far as not having a "LIKE" button, might I suggest a $5dollar NazDar/Source One gift certificate to "IN-N- OUT BURGERS"

At the end of the day, A rising tide lifts ALL ships. Competition is good for any healthy industry. It pushes us all to do and be
Better! I am most certain NazDar/ Source One Enjoys Selling To All, Regardless of Color. You Lead A Good Organization, And
It Shows.
Cheers
winston

[Shanarchy]

I'm with most, it's really poor salesmanship. A guy was in here a few months back and spoke of a shoddy build, but of course having not seen one, I had no input. There are a few folks here though running them, and I haven't seen anyone complaining. So I also would say that you need to talk to owners, and not necessarily the ones they tell you to call, in case there may be a bias there. We run MHM and M&R, both solid builds; the M&R is 21 years old, and still cranks; the MHM is 12 years old and is a really great press. Good luck hunting.

Steve

You're more than welcome to come visit if you wanted to take a peak and play around with mine.

[LoneWolf2]

For the record... Ryonet never bashed M&R when we were looking at S-Roque. They did what adult professionals do. We told them what we wanted in a press and they were able to provide a press and solutions that overcame all of our objections and that addressed all of our needs. In comparing green to blue they were quite respectful of M&R. They compared features/benefits etc of both and were able to "sell" us on them and the S-Roque press. A decision that we have zero regrets about.

Our experience with M&R during this process was VASTLY different. Something they should take a look at IMO

Thanks for all of the replies and insightful info. I don't feel like a crazy person now haha.

My experience thus far is about the same as yours, '64. Currently in the process of ordering a Roq to go alongside the m&r and have heard nothing but positivity and honest answers from the Ryonet guys about both the blue and green machines and they've gone out of there way in every aspect. I can't say as much for the folks on the other side of the fence, which really rubbed me the wrong way and ultimately made my decision easier, but left me a little disappointed as I expected more from them.

[AntonySharples]

It has everything to do with who ended up as the distributor.  People don't like Ryonet or like to bash on them because they have a different way of doing things.  I'll tell you this, they are marketing geniuses.  All companies should really take note on how to make a great online presence. 

As for the machines, I have only ever owned an sroque, though I looked at Anatol, M&R, and Workhorse.  For me, I fell in love with the roq from the beginning and Ryonet helped find solutions to problems I had.  For me, that was the deciding factor.  Never ever regretted going with the Roq.

[Sbrem]

I'm with most, it's really poor salesmanship. A guy was in here a few months back and spoke of a shoddy build, but of course having not seen one, I had no input. There are a few folks here though running them, and I haven't seen anyone complaining. So I also would say that you need to talk to owners, and not necessarily the ones they tell you to call, in case there may be a bias there. We run MHM and M&R, both solid builds; the M&R is 21 years old, and still cranks; the MHM is 12 years old and is a really great press. Good luck hunting.

Steve

You're more than welcome to come visit if you wanted to take a peak and play around with mine.

Thanks Shane, might take you up on that when it becomes time to replace the old Gauntlet...

Steve

[alan802]

Although it's been a long time since we were shopping for an auto I do remember well having conversations with many different sales people and a small percentage of them used the negative tactics.  WARNING-DEVIL'S ADVOCATE COMMENT: Having also been witness to the introduction of a certain manufacturer with our favorite press guru who shall go nameless so the forum doesn't sensor the post, I can remind all of those here the few times when some "negative" comments on certain actors would have saved some people thousands and thousands of dollars had they took that advice.  But was that advice simply meant to bash or did those people offering the negative comments actually care to not see someone lose their hard-earned money?  I suspect that both are correct depending on the salesperson but only that person really knows the motivation behind their comments.  None of the negative comments about our machine have rung true in our situation, but I have seen it happen to others that weren't as fortunate.  Some people with certain brands have definitely been left "stranded" and a lot of what people consider negative sales tactics warned of exactly that.  I know what I speak of is contrary to what I think salespersons should do in our industry but I can't lie and say that it's all out of spite of the other manufacturer.  On more than a few occasions the bashing could have saved some shops from serious damage.

I've spoken out against this very thing many times over the years, but I'm also more wise now and have seen certain things ring true that a few years ago would be considered bashing.  I'm not stupid enough to believe that ALL of the bashing comes from a place of good, but I will say it doesn't always come from a bad place. 

Where do you draw the line, if at all, between saying something that is TRUE, or if it's true but negative do you not share it?  This issue has come to light more recently in the political scene in the US, where people are being shamed if they say something that is absolutely a true statement but not politically correct.  Are we in fact encouraging a sales person to not say something to someone looking to buy an orange press if they know of an orange machine sitting at a shop that isn't running due to lack of service?  I'm not asking these questions because I know the answers, but rather to hear what others think they would want their salesperson to say if they were in the same situation.  This is such a hard topic to discuss and actually be on the right side of it due to the complexity and subjective nature of the info being shared.  If M&R, for example only, were to tell a shop looking to buy a certain brand press that they will be waiting 16-20 weeks to get that press or they could buy an M&R and get it in 4 weeks, that could be considered negative depending on what the truth was.  If that other brand has a delivery time of 16-20 weeks then I hope others wouldn't consider telling the truth as using poor sales tactics.  But at the same time, if the 16-20 week delivery is not true, I would hope the person engaging in the negative sales tactic would be called out for it and learn from their mistake. 

It's a fine line. 

[mimosatexas]

This topic really doesn't relate to my specific experience buying automatic presses at all since I haven't bought one, but being someone who researches large (and small) purchases to the point of maybe being too careful, here are some random thoughts:

• if sales people are bashing another brand, but those comments arent backed up by what you see on the forums or hear from owners of that brand, ignore it as sales people being sales people.
• if sales people are pointing out issues like lead times, and specific differences between the way machines work etc, rather than generally bashing a brand, they may actually have a point and it is up to you to research those specific points and weigh them.
• like with anything, whether it be reviews on amazon or thoughts from sales people and owners on an automatic press brand, people will have a wide variety of opinions, but generally with enough poking around you can get a consensus.

When it comes to ROQ specifically, I haven't really seen anyone who owns one complaining about them on any of the forums/reddit/etc the way I have with automatic brands like Anatol, Brown, or Lawson.  Again, not to say those brands are inherently bad and should be avoided AT ALL, but just pointing out that I have seen enough complaints about those from end users to make me weary of owning one.  The same can be said about the complaints you read about V squeegee machines, or parts availability from MHM, or micros on older gauntlets, and on and on.  Comments from end users are enlightening in a way that sales talk never will be.  Sometimes those complaints don't matter much, and sometimes they do...

As others have mentioned, I suspect the hate for ROQ us mostly related to them being new and taking increasing market share, and/or their relationship with Ryonet, and has nothing to do with the actual quality of the brand and feedback from end users.

[TCT]

As others have mentioned, I suspect the hate for ROQ us mostly related to them being new and taking increasing market share, and/or their relationship with Ryonet, and has nothing to do with the actual quality of the brand and feedback from end users.

I bet you can chalk 85% of the haters up to dislike towards Ryonet. 10% to brand loyalty and 5% to pure ignorance.

No matter the brand, best advice is always to talk to current owners, ask if they'd buy again.

I always thought it would be sweet to have a company(my guess it would have to be primarily web based) that offered ALL brands for pallet tape to equipment. It would be interesting to see what a salesperson from a company like that would be like. I totally understand why it would never be possible, but it would be cool....

[J-Man]

Hate to revive this 3 month old topic but I just discovered it - don't spend much time on the forums.

I sold ROQ presses here @ Ryonet for a couple of years. ZERO unhappy clients. I never bashed the "competition" because in my mind there is no competition - there's other manufacturers that sell t-shirt printing machines but nobody makes anything like ROQ. Those other brands may fit what you are trying to accomplish - they produce results, but what ROQ provides is a very unique solution.

Sure we've poked fun at M&R, but all in good playful spirit

Interesting fact: No printshop has ever bought a ROQ, then decided they didn't like it and went and bought another manufacturer's machine. I know of countless people that have switched from every other brand to ROQ however.

The machines speak loudly for themselves through the users that have them, especially those that have switched over from other brands. Talk to them

[ABuffington]

For what is worth, owning various manufacturer's presses is a nightmare.  Nothing can be borrowed from one to fix the other in a pinch.  You will become a tech of your own press with calibration and repairs.  We found our parts inventory needs doubled, then tripled with another different press.  Crews who used one had to be trained to use the other, flexibility was lost.  From a cost standpoint having one brand in the shop was the least expensive.  Then finding the brand we could work on was another plus.  Some brands we owned, and loved, cost a fortune to repair, while the other had parts the next morning and walked us through the repair.  All can print great looking prints, a lot of the decision making is about financing, support, in the beginning.  In the long run which can you repair?  Which one has a tech nearby to repair today, not next week.  What are typical repair costs and issues?  In the end it's not the nut holding the wheel, it's the nut behind the wheel that makes it work.

[J-Man]

...In the long run which can you repair?  Which one has a tech nearby to repair today, not next week.  What are typical repair costs and issues?  In the end it's not the nut holding the wheel, it's the nut behind the wheel that makes it work.

Better yet, which one need not be repaired so often by a tech. Which one comes with a 3 year squeegee to squeegee warranty that includes parts, technician travel, AND labor?

A typical service call from big blue will run you at least a a couple thousand dollars.

The standard warranty for theirs and every other machine is 2 years.

They will cover the part if it's defective, but better believe you're paying for a technician's flight, travel expenses, and labor to come replace it.

And you'll often be forced to pay for the replacement part and be re-imbursed upon returning the defective part....A DEFECTIVE PART!?

Fact: Replacement parts and service calls are a several million dollar per year profit center for that brand everyone loves and trusts.


ROQ machines need to be serviced so few and far between and have so few mechanical issues that they simply do not break and wear down as often. We've charged $0 for replacement parts in the 3+ years of distributing these machines.

[GraphicDisorder]

I sold ROQ presses here @ Ryonet for a couple of years. ZERO unhappy clients. I never bashed the "competition"

In one post you say you never bashed the competition, just 1 post later you are sorta doing exactly that...no? 

...In the long run which can you repair?  Which one has a tech nearby to repair today, not next week.  What are typical repair costs and issues?  In the end it's not the nut holding the wheel, it's the nut behind the wheel that makes it work.

Better yet, which one need not be repaired so often by a tech. Which one comes with a 3 year squeegee to squeegee warranty that includes parts, technician travel, AND labor?

A typical service call from big blue will run you at least a a couple thousand dollars.

The standard warranty for theirs and every other machine is 2 years.

They will cover the part if it's defective, but better believe you're paying for a technician's flight, travel expenses, and labor to come replace it.

And you'll often be forced to pay for the replacement part and be re-imbursed upon returning the defective part....A DEFECTIVE PART!?

Fact: Replacement parts and service calls are a several million dollar per year profit center for that brand everyone loves and trusts.


ROQ machines need to be serviced so few and far between and have so few mechanical issues that they simply do not break and wear down as often. We've charged $0 for replacement parts in the 3+ years of distributing these machines.

Also:

Interesting fact: No printshop has ever bought a ROQ, then decided they didn't like it and went and bought another manufacturer's machine. I know of countless people that have switched from every other brand to ROQ however.

The machines speak loudly for themselves through the users that have them, especially those that have switched over from other brands. Talk to them

While you are busy posturing and taking shots. FYI There is someone on this very board with serious issues with his ROQ and its been going on for awhile now. Maybe you should look into that? I think Danny had to step in somewhat recently and twist some arms to get any movement on this issue. I haven't seen a update but its worth you looking into while you have time to be throwing stones.

[dirkdiggler]

I started to say the same as Brandt did just now, yesterday!  I didn't want to throw stones, but since you mentioned Blue, what you did say about them is not necessarily true, and I can only speak for my situation.  Blue will show up for me almost anytime and will do the right thing when it comes to charges if there are any at all.  Back to Green, I personally know more than 1 shop that has green and hates it!  I would suggest learning of all those situations before making all the bold statements you have made here with only the few posts you have.  I also know guys who have them and love them.  So, just to keep the facts straight.  Guys on this board are educated and if you rattle off facts, you better make sure they are true or someone will let you know quick!

[jvanick]

I hate to stir the pot, but .... 

Better yet, which one need not be repaired so often by a tech. Which one comes with a 3 year squeegee to squeegee warranty that includes parts, technician travel, AND labor?

ALL machines, no matter what the color will break down.  What matters is if you can get quality support that can help you troubleshoot the issue right away, as well as getting parts locally.

A typical service call from big blue will run you at least a a couple thousand dollars.

The standard warranty for theirs and every other machine is 2 years.

They will cover the part if it's defective, but better believe you're paying for a technician's flight, travel expenses, and labor to come replace it.

M&R offers a quite inexpensive 1 week long intensive training program in their factory where you can learn how to troubleshoot, replace and maintain those parts yourself.  If Roq offers something like that, I certainly haven't heard about it.

Their techs (if you're willing will also walk you through the replacement procedures over the phone, unless something severely went wrong with the press you wouldn't NEED to have someone come out)

ROQ machines need to be serviced so few and far between and have so few mechanical issues that they simply do not break and wear down as often. We've charged $0 for replacement parts in the 3+ years of distributing these machines.

of course you have, you've only been distributing them for 3-4 years now... wait till these presses are 7-8 years old with 20 million+ impressions on them, and then let's talk again.

[blue moon]

OK, I think Josh got the point, lets give him a moment to take a breath and regroup.

Josh, please don't let the commentary scare you, please stick with us. It will give you better understanding of what is going on overall and it will give us somebody from ROQ clan to answer our questions.

pierre