Green Machine disdain

[LoneWolf2]

So i've been sitting on this question for a while now trying to decide if I should post or not, but today solidified it for me.
Since before the SGIA show i've been looking at all sorts of equipment and trying to get my ducks in a row to make new purchases this coming year, and one thing that's stuck out to me from talking to the sales reps of various manufacturers are how they go out of their way to bash the Roq/sRoque stuff whenever the topic of presses come up. I find it odd because most all of them seem to 'have a customer that hates it and if they did it over, wouldn't go with a roq', yet when I pick the brains of said shop owners, there's not a bad thing to say about it and they're usually in the process of adding another one, or had just added another one to their shop.

Equipment is touchy subject because everyone has their way of doing things (I myself have an m&r for now), but I just find it weird that sales folks and other individuals are so quick to bash the products (thinking that'll make their product sound better?) and give extremely opposite opinions of the people that actually own the equipment.

So in short, what gives?

[ebscreen]

Viable threat.

[pwalsh]

So i've been sitting on this question for a while now trying to decide if I should post or not, but today solidified it for me.
Since before the SGIA show i've been looking at all sorts of equipment and trying to get my ducks in a row to make new purchases this coming year, and one thing that's stuck out to me from talking to the sales reps of various manufacturers are how they go out of their way to bash the Roq/sRoque stuff whenever the topic of presses come up. I find it odd because most all of them seem to 'have a customer that hates it and if they did it over, wouldn't go with a roq', yet when I pick the brains of said shop owners, there's not a bad thing to say about it and they're usually in the process of adding another one, or had just added another one to their shop.

Equipment is touchy subject because everyone has their way of doing things (I myself have an m&r for now), but I just find it weird that sales folks and other individuals are so quick to bash the products (thinking that'll make their product sound better?) and give extremely opposite opinions of the people that actually own the equipment.

So in short, what gives?

"What Gives?" is that you've been hearing the pitch of some Lazy Salesmen who think the best strategy is to blast the competition by telling you how bad their equipment is, instead of presenting the features, benefits and value of their offering.   

[californiadreamin]

What Gives?
I think it is a problem that the industry, in the United States has had for a long time. A Shrinking Screen print market
In the USA both in Graphic And Textile with not a lot of competition until recently. The Ones that "have" want to hold on
to what they have, and technology in manufacturing and internet communications have created "new" opportunities to the
USA market for "newcomers" (Roq) as well as "oldcomers" (Workhorse with the "sabre' press). Roq is a serious contender!
They have new ownership with new money and a Great Product Line. They are coming in to the US market, and will take their
share. No doubt about it. They are VERY strong in the international markets and the US is "gravy" for them. Vice versa for US
manufacturers. They now have to compete In international market to sustain their size and hope for growth, In a VERY competitive world. That being said, I think "people" get nervous when change is in the mist. I agree with Peter! A good salesman
should sell the benefits of their offerings and refrain from ugliness. Customers are a lot smarter than some give credit. I for
one will not do business with anyone, if possible that shows bad traits!
winston

[pwalsh]

What Gives?
I think it is a problem that the industry, in the United States has had for a long time. A Shrinking Screen print market
In the USA both in Graphic And Textile with not a lot of competition until recently. The Ones that "have" want to hold on
to what they have, and technology in manufacturing and internet communications have created "new" opportunities to the
USA market for "newcomers" (Roq) as well as "oldcomers" (Workhorse with the "sabre' press). Roq is a serious contender!
They have new ownership with new money and a Great Product Line. They are coming in to the US market, and will take their
share. No doubt about it. They are VERY strong in the international markets and the US is "gravy" for them. Vice versa for US
manufacturers. They now have to compete In international market to sustain their size and hope for growth, In a VERY competitive world. That being said, I think "people" get nervous when change is in the mist. I agree with Peter! A good salesman
should sell the benefits of their offerings and refrain from ugliness. Customers are a lot smarter than some give credit. I for
one will not do business with anyone, if possible that shows bad traits!
winston

Winston:  This is one of those posts where I wish there was a LIKE button! 

I hope that you are keeping well, and that we can catch up in Long Beach next month.

[TCT]

Bashing is a sign of a week salesman/woman. Owners insight is pricele$$!

[1964GN]

When we were getting ready to buy a new press just over a year ago we encountered a similar thing. I would stop short of saying they "bashed" BUT the word S-Roque couldn't even come out of their mouths. "That green thing." (a direct quote from one higher up blue sales person) was more typical.

Ryonet has blatantly antagonized blue. When you poke the monster the monsters knee jerk reaction is to poke back.

[GraphicDisorder]

Ryonet has blatantly antagonized blue. When you poke the monster the monsters knee jerk reaction is to poke back.

You've correctly pointed out what I saw play out on Instagram. Let's remember it started with Ryonet/Sroq antagonizing M&R. I met a couple of the Ryonet/Sroq people at SGIA and they were nice people. One is clawing for market share in the USA and the other is setting sales records and expanding manufacturing. I can't say a negative thing about either other than I saw one of the Sroq techs on IG really going at M&R on a regular basis for a period of time.

That type of thing can explode in your face.  See AREDUBYABEE for how that's worked out for him, he's on local TV in his PJ's selling booster beds....and at least Sroq isn't taking money from people and not shipping presses. Danny loves his and I don't doubt they are great for a second.

[mooseman]

For a while I made a few bucks selling industrial equipment. One of the things I never did EVER was bash my competition's product or the person who represented it. Not because I am a nice guy (I am not) but because it always comes off as an act of desperation and weakness. Additionally it is a dead give away, when a bashing point is brought up in a competitive situation, the undertones / the real message from the salesperson should be real clear.....

First the message is Damn ..I am going to loose another sale to those bums.....

The second message is Damn this customer is at least a little educated on the products  of interest and he /she has, no doubt, established a base line of what they want and need and I am going to come up short

OK doesn't look like I am going to get this sale, screw it let me poison this customers decision so every time something doesn't go right when he buys that junk he will hear I TOLD YOU SO.

At the end of the day you get to decide if you are going to buy from the mouse or the eagle.
mooseman

[dirkdiggler]

I spent a good bit of time talking with Bobby at SGIA, super nice to me and he knows my situation and relationship with blue.  Treated me with respect as I did him.  Showed me some cool features that they offer that I have not seen anywhere else.  Definitely worth looking at if you are in the market, but, I see service in small areas like where I live to be a problem.  May not be, but I bet it is.  I only jokingly mess with Danny outside the TSB to give him a hard time, green, blue, red, brown, white, think there is even a burgundy one out there now, they all get results.

[screenprintguy]

When we were getting ready to buy a new press just over a year ago we encountered a similar thing. I would stop short of saying they "bashed" BUT the word S-Roque couldn't even come out of their mouths. "That green thing." (a direct quote from one higher up blue sales person) was more typical.

Ryonet has blatantly antagonized blue. When you poke the monster the monsters knee jerk reaction is to poke back.

Nobody is innocent in this topic. We spent a solid 2 years planning our shop upgrade. We talked in depth over that time with multiple manufacturers, reps ect. For the most part everyone does their normal and stands by their brand. But, there is always going to be a little bash here and there. Everyone has to admit, when one brand goes out of their way to make a video of people beating up another brand with sledge hammers, they should expect some sort of blow back, and NOBODY should be shocked if said brand being beat up with a sledgehammer is a little pissed. Of course the press being sledgehammered was probably well over 20 years old and needed to be put out of it's misery the way it looked like it was kept up ect, and the work it was put through, any machine in that condition is ready to become an artificial reef. That being said. Like you said Mike, if someone pokes, they should expect to be poked back, but that's the manufacturer's battle, we are the printers that they all want to work with. We have friends on both of these mentioned sides and do our best to stay out of any back and forth between them. It's up to all of us to stay on all the brands to live up to their promises and the competition they all have has really ramped up the tech in our industry, so there is a good side we all benefit from. Sales guys and reps should just stay out of politics and just stand behind their brand, like we all do with our shops.

[1964GN]

For the record... Ryonet never bashed M&R when we were looking at S-Roque. They did what adult professionals do. We told them what we wanted in a press and they were able to provide a press and solutions that overcame all of our objections and that addressed all of our needs. In comparing green to blue they were quite respectful of M&R. They compared features/benefits etc of both and were able to "sell" us on them and the S-Roque press. A decision that we have zero regrets about.

Our experience with M&R during this process was VASTLY different. Something they should take a look at IMO

[Sbrem]

I'm with most, it's really poor salesmanship. A guy was in here a few months back and spoke of a shoddy build, but of course having not seen one, I had no input. There are a few folks here though running them, and I haven't seen anyone complaining. So I also would say that you need to talk to owners, and not necessarily the ones they tell you to call, in case there may be a bias there. We run MHM and M&R, both solid builds; the M&R is 21 years old, and still cranks; the MHM is 12 years old and is a really great press. Good luck hunting.

Steve

[screenprintguy]

For the record... Ryonet never bashed M&R when we were looking at S-Roque. They did what adult professionals do. We told them what we wanted in a press and they were able to provide a press and solutions that overcame all of our objections and that addressed all of our needs. In comparing green to blue they were quite respectful of M&R. They compared features/benefits etc of both and were able to "sell" us on them and the S-Roque press. A decision that we have zero regrets about.

Our experience with M&R during this process was VASTLY different. Something they should take a look at IMO

I can attest to that. In all our time with Ryan, he never had a bad thing to say, in fact he always said how he admired Rich. Josh and Joao as well. In fact when those guys heard about our final desicion, they all went out of their way to either email or call and congratulate us on our new equipment and were classy about the whole thing. There are a couple other jaded folks in their crew though, but you can't control everyone. For the most part though, their focus was on their product and how solid they want people to know it is. You were also cool enough to invite us to your shop a couple times, sorry we never made it out, we will meet up one day. Rick Ramirez had a lot of nice things to say about you. You know how it is, you think you can get out of the shop, and damned if something else pops up and it's 10 pm lol.

[1964GN]

I can attest to that. I all our time with Ryan, he never had a bad thing to say, in fact he always said how he admired Rich. Josh and Joao as well. In fact when those guys heard about our final desicion, they all went out of their way to either email or call and congratulate us on our new equipment and we classy about the whole thing.

That is the kind of thing all companies should do. Sadly, all we heard were crickets from the other side, which in a small way help reinforce our decision.

The invitation is open ended BTW