Strange registration issue

[LuckyFlyinROUSH]

Red head flip clamp latched or nuts loose?

See if you can narrow it down to just head one. Then it's only a few possibilities.

[ZooCity]

We looked at that quickly today while the dryer was cooling, the latch seems snug enough to me but I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt for it to be a little extra tight. 

Jim at M&R had a very good suggestion to also check the tightness of the jam nuts/wrought washer areas of the flip up heads.  I hadn't thought of that area as a potential cause.  I'm going to tighten that up before we get to doing a print test for reg and see what happens.

My initial repair focus is on the front assy of the print head.  That's where the strength of the head is and any little bit of wiggle there could easily cause a problem like this.

[brandon]

Jim at M&R had a very good suggestion to also check the tightness of the jam nuts/wrought washer areas of the flip up heads.  I hadn't thought of that area as a potential cause.  I'm going to tighten that up before we get to doing a print test for reg and see what happens.

My initial repair focus is on the front assy of the print head.  That's where the strength of the head is and any little bit of wiggle there could easily cause a problem like this.

This. Yup, have experienced it in the past

[ScreenFoo]

I was thinking the latch clamp or bushings--other thing I would check is if you really cranked down the nuts on the screen clamps themselves the last time you leveled the press.   (I'm guessing here that they're still on threaded rods going up to a cast part)

IME it can be snug enough to feel tight, but shift when printing.    Check the bottom nuts too. 

[ZooCity]

Today I realized I never followed up on this.

The problem we had was related to the platen arms being loose.  There are medium sized black bolts that install from beneath the platen arms and affix them to the core.  Many, most actually, of these bolts were finger loose. 

Checking these bolts is now part of weekly PM on the machine, I recommend anyone with this style press do the same.

[ScreenFoo]

Are you trading weekly leveling for weekly bolt checks? 

Sounds like a win to me. 

[ZooCity]

I wish!  Now we have to do both. 

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[3Deep]

Just my 2 cents but I believe any press with air should be checked for loose nut/bolts especially under heavy use once every two weeks or so, the press I have is air and when we are rocking and rolling it's banging.

[ZooCity]

This is servo/ac. But does have air lift and that's good general advice.

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[Lizard]

Hey Zoo,

I would guess the pallets are slightly moved in which would cause the squeegees to land just off the pallet and stretch the screen differently on each print causing registration issues.  What we usually do when printing locker tags is screw down on the squeegee choppers to limit the free travel if the squeegee is dropping at the edge of the pallet then riding up onto it.  This usually takes care of issues like this.  Also more of a squeegee angle usually accomplishes the same thing.  That is our standard procedure for sleeve/pocket pallets.  A Lot of squeegee angle.

[ZooCity]

Hey Zoo,

I would guess the pallets are slightly moved in which would cause the squeegees to land just off the pallet and stretch the screen differently on each print causing registration issues.  What we usually do when printing locker tags is screw down on the squeegee choppers to limit the free travel if the squeegee is dropping at the edge of the pallet then riding up onto it.  This usually takes care of issues like this.  Also more of a squeegee angle usually accomplishes the same thing.  That is our standard procedure for sleeve/pocket pallets.  A Lot of squeegee angle.

Great advice!

We make all effort to not drop the blade off the platen and then ramp up on to it, that can cause all sorts of weirdness.  We also have had all print choppers locked at full depth from day 1, we only use pressure to control blade depth.   But this is a good place to look in many situations.

This particular issue was 100% from loose print arms due to bolts loosening.  Once we tightened up those bolts it all went away.  I don't understand how the design would allow a critical part like this to come loose like that or, knowing that the part will in fact loosen over time, not be included as a check point in the PM schedule.  We had no idea those bolts were under there as they are in a recessed part of the arm and not visible.  We lost a lot of time, money and sanity on this and the cause of this issue changed a large part of my outlook on how a press should be designed for daily use.

[Lizard]

Hey Zoo,

I would guess the pallets are slightly moved in which would cause the squeegees to land just off the pallet and stretch the screen differently on each print causing registration issues.  What we usually do when printing locker tags is screw down on the squeegee choppers to limit the free travel if the squeegee is dropping at the edge of the pallet then riding up onto it.  This usually takes care of issues like this.  Also more of a squeegee angle usually accomplishes the same thing.  That is our standard procedure for sleeve/pocket pallets.  A Lot of squeegee angle.

One of our sportsman presses does that often as well. The other two never loosen up. And we tighten the heck out of them. I'ts our smallest press so wondering if the faster speed has any effect on that.

Great advice!

We make all effort to not drop the blade off the platen and then ramp up on to it, that can cause all sorts of weirdness.  We also have had all print choppers locked at full depth from day 1, we only use pressure to control blade depth.   But this is a good place to look in many situations.

This particular issue was 100% from loose print arms due to bolts loosening.  Once we tightened up those bolts it all went away.  I don't understand how the design would allow a critical part like this to come loose like that or, knowing that the part will in fact loosen over time, not be included as a check point in the PM schedule.  We had no idea those bolts were under there as they are in a recessed part of the arm and not visible.  We lost a lot of time, money and sanity on this and the cause of this issue changed a large part of my outlook on how a press should be designed for daily use.

[Binkspot]

This really bothers me, I have yet to see these or any other bolts come loose on any presses. Checking for loose bolts should not need be a regular maintenance item or something to worry about. This would be the same as having to check the pan bolts on your car every week. No press should be shaking bad enough to shake things loose. If you are having to tighten them often you are risking damaging or stretching the threaded holes in the press which will be a royal PIA to repair. The threads being damaged could be the reason they are coming loose. Bolts can and do wear out also from repeated use or over tightening. If they are coming loose I would highly recommend replacing the bolts with new grade 5 or better yet 8, either the self locking flange head type, using a locking washer or adding a drop of blue Loctite to the threads. All the M&R presses I have come across have the self locking flange head bolts on the pallet arms that once tightened are locked in for good.

[244]

Hey Zoo,

I would guess the pallets are slightly moved in which would cause the squeegees to land just off the pallet and stretch the screen differently on each print causing registration issues.  What we usually do when printing locker tags is screw down on the squeegee choppers to limit the free travel if the squeegee is dropping at the edge of the pallet then riding up onto it.  This usually takes care of issues like this.  Also more of a squeegee angle usually accomplishes the same thing.  That is our standard procedure for sleeve/pocket pallets.  A Lot of squeegee angle.

Great advice!

We make all effort to not drop the blade off the platen and then ramp up on to it, that can cause all sorts of weirdness.  We also have had all print choppers locked at full depth from day 1, we only use pressure to control blade depth.   But this is a good place to look in many situations.

This particular issue was 100% from loose print arms due to bolts loosening.  Once we tightened up those bolts it all went away.  I don't understand how the design would allow a critical part like this to come loose like that or, knowing that the part will in fact loosen over time, not be included as a check point in the PM schedule.  We had no idea those bolts were under there as they are in a recessed part of the arm and not visible.  We lost a lot of time, money and sanity on this and the cause of this issue changed a large part of my outlook on how a press should be designed for daily use.

The front a-frame and micro plates are very robust and will last way longer than the press is designed for if maintained properly. I have a 27 year old press on display here at M&R with ten's of millions of imprints and the micro lock nuts are still as good as the day we put them on. Are you leaving the screen holders in the up position all the time when not in use? I suggest you don't if you are. Its the same as leaving the trunk of your car open and driving around. Bet the trunk lid would be pretty shot after a day or two! Put them in the down and locked position instead and that will help a lot.

[3Deep]

The only problem I have with our press is the the screw backing out on the manual screen clamps foot, I was at a Harley bike rally and was talking with one the bikers, he was going over his bike checking for loose bolts.   He told me that was a big problem on his bike being it was a hard tail.