Water base HSA ink what is the best!

[UnderPressureSP]

We have been testing out a lot of HSA inks on the market but keep coming back to Magna colours since the mixing system is always right.  Having the ink print the right color on a shirt is critical for us so we can setup the job once and be done.  Also it help us crank out production and not have to worry if we are going to have to adjust the color on the press saving lots of time.  We recently tested out Viruses Hydra Acrylic system and were not impressed in the color matching and were told we were printing or mixing wrong.   After 3 weeks Virus admitted the formula was wrong for printing on white shirts and update it.  So we concluded that virus was not for us till they get the color mixing system.  We do not like matsui any more after using magna for color mixing.  I was wondering how the new Green Galaxy color matching system is and if it prints true to color?   

[ericheartsu]

The Green Galaxy inks are fine, but we find that they aren't very opaque overall.

[ZooCity]

Rutland hsa here.  Best opacity we tested but virus wasn't available yet so we need to look at those at some point.  The hsa uses either the wb99 formulas if mixing PCs (less opaque) into the base or EW formulas for the RFU base system (more opaque).  We do the former for colors over a base and order the latter as needed since we don't stock the RFUs.

So I can't speak to the RFU system's formula accuracy but the wb99 overall is maybe 65% accurate if you know what to adjust on the initial mix.
 
We tested green galaxy white recently and it was nowhere near opaque enough for our needs.  We have some red to try too but expecting the same result.

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[jvanick]

we like the Matsui here.. been working out really well for us (301-CL)

[ericheartsu]

Rutland hsa here.  Best opacity we tested but virus wasn't available yet so we need to look at those at some point.  The hsa uses either the wb99 formulas if mixing PCs (less opaque) into the base or EW formulas for the RFU base system (more opaque).  We do the former for colors over a base and order the latter as needed since we don't stock the RFUs.

So I can't speak to the RFU system's formula accuracy but the wb99 overall is maybe 65% accurate if you know what to adjust on the initial mix.
 
We tested green galaxy white recently and it was nowhere near opaque enough for our needs.  We have some red to try too but expecting the same result.

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we've been having good luck using GG white as the base...but i'm sure it's not a preferred method.

[jsheridan]

We have been testing out a lot of HSA inks on the market but keep coming back to Magna colours since the mixing system is always right. 

I have limited use with Magna HSA and normal WB and agree with the color, we had some hard colors that didn't come close to matching with other systems and the magna was spot on every time, european inks tend to have better matching systems for some reason. I don't like the smell of their inks and they softened the plastic cups they were in (smart and final deli cups, the tall round ones)

As with all WB type inks, documentation of how you made it is critical to next runs success. You have to weigh and write down every single drop you put in the cup. WB is very unforgiving of a little of this and that style mixing due to the concentration of the pigments, even 0.02 to much can skew the color.

[ericheartsu]

There is also permaset ink, which is pretty opaque, but REALLY expensive.

[UnderPressureSP]

I tried to get the Rutland HSA system but the tech told me they were going to stop making it and it was  a horrible ink  and tried to push tko on me but since we have a lot of clients that want HSA that wouldn't work for us.  After multiple times of trying to order it we gave up.   We have tried permaset but the color system to lacking.  Magna seems to be the best we have tested for mixing.  We do have a industrial automotive paint scale that makes it easy to weigh out the perfect mix any time.  I did get a micro pipet to get to .01 when when mixing and that helps since drops sometimes will throw off the formula.  And we do document every ink and magna makes it easy to track any change since it lets us record the change on the software for there color mixing.  For sericol discharge I have a lab book I use to record all formulas since I have yet to figure out a excel sheet I like.  We also add 5% gel retarder to magna which helps a lot here in Texas.  Still have not played around with there anti-tack additive which is supposed to allow you to print wet on wet after flashing the under base.  The Virus white Hydra acrylic works great for us under basing.  When we tested it we left it in the screen during the summer for a hour and came back to it and it still printed.  We were sold on that white for under basing at that point.   We had the same problem with the green galaxy we tested with the magna pigments not that opaque and virus seem that same way.  We also start running CCI spot black since it has awesome cover over trapping making the traps not noticeable compared to the GG black water base.  I will guess keep the system we have now since the color matching is right on and everything we print is custom pantones and currently we mix every color for free. 

[Rockers]

So if Rutland stops making HSA inks does it mean Union will discontinue them too?

[ZooCity]

Rutland isn't stopping HSA production, they're updating.  At least that's what I heard and I believe it's reliable info.

I had the same experience when we first got into HSA with our Rutland reps at the time pulling the same crap, insisting we would never want to use this ink and refusing to sell it to us.  There must have been some type of agenda in sales against the HSAs.  Once we started working with Kelly and Christine at RC, everything went more or less smoothly with this ink.  I do look forward to an upgrade to the line however.  If the WB99 PCs could be used with a base to generate more opaque mixes it would make the system unique to anything else out there.  A little less aggressive dry in would be nice too.

We'll have to get some Virus in here to try.  We test opaque whites for HSA first as I've found that if an ink mfg makes a quality opaque white the rest typically follows suit.  Where are you getting the Virus from? I only know of one source in CA.  We have to mod the Rutland HSA (as intended the way their system is setup) pretty significantly to get the inks to work for us in our climate so hearing about 1hour open time is very intriguing. 

I don't see why there is any hubbub over the GG inks, they were mediocre in our testing and would have necessitated an additional screen to use on the job we tested on. 

UnderPressure, have the mixes you've done with the Magna system been reasonably opaque?  Having to print, say, 2 reds in an design due to using HSA really isn't feasible for most of the market we serve right now, let alone for our presses.  The Rultand RFU colors are closer to plastisol in opacity but our PC mixes are not with the deeper, brighter tones.

[UnderPressureSP]

The tech did tell me about a better form of the HSA ink that was be using overseas but at the time rutland had no market here in the USA so he advice me to stay away from the HSA ink they were making saying that they were going to stop making them.  This was at the start of this year.  I order my virus from https://www.silkscreen-supplies.com/ in cali.  When we did that test we ran the white hydra acrylic with 4% retarder and left the screen open while I ran off another job.  Its great for a under base but the hydra arylic system failed our color matching test.  The ink for making colors calls for no HSA soild white so it lacks opaqueness but has crazy open times like the GG base.  The magna calls for the soild HSA white with a percent of clear base.  With a under base there is no problem but with out a under base they look vintage on a dark garment which a lot of our clients want.  I have found that the opacity varies from each ink color.   The more brighter the shade the more white and the darker the shade the more clear but the cool thing is that the color prints pretty true to the color mix in the ink container.   That is what I hated about the gg is the ink would look great in the bucket but on the shirt it would change color.  We currently are running mostly 180 s mesh and the 5% gel retarder.  Nazdar sells a sample kit for the magna which was worth proved to be great color matching system.  Plus there is a lot less pigments vs the virus system.  I was kind of amazed at all the extra pigment types in the virus system.  I still wonder about the discharge system for magna if its true to color because with sericol we have a recipe book but ever week I am having to formulate about   4 to 16 new recipes a week.   Which can take up to 4 hours out of other thinks I could be doing vs having my staff mix ink.   

[noortrd]

Matsui is best. No body beat.

[brandon]

I have been lucky to have the pleasure to work with most of the systems on the market in the States and they all work. They all have their pros can cons it is Just which system is the best for you. And the most important - which one you can get repeatedly. And when you are busting at the gills - can you get that 5 gallon of white tomorrow? You have to think about stuff like that.

[Rockers]

Matsui is best. No body beat.

That`s a bold statement. Have you tried any other HSA inks?
Permaset Aqua beats Matsui`s opaque white hands down, no question at all. Further more depending in which region of the world you are you will find differences in quality of the Matsui products. The Matsui white you get in China for example is different to what you get in the States. The Matsui white I get here in Japan does not convince me at all. The Union HSA was not a winner either.
For us the Permaset white was best. Now unfortunately they don`t have a distributer in Japan so I`m stuck with Matsui or I have to bring it in from Australia.

[noortrd]

permaset white price?