What's it worth?

[Sbrem]

Film for us was always a pain to dig up. I can't tell you how many times we'd dig up a job and find 1 of the flims was missing or some issue with it. Sure we could have been better at it but we no longer have to worry about that.  So when your doing film you must count time spent putting it away and finding it again plus time spent lining it up on your FPU.

I wouldn't go back, id even suggest id take a less amazing press than ditch my CTS.

It takes less than 10 minutes to file the previous days work, by someone in the office actually, not a production person, cost is 0 essentially. Losing a film, maybe one in 500 times, because we have always taken good care of them. Some of the issues others mention regarding film are simply not a problem here. As far as speed, do some of you have presses sitting idle because you can't get screens made ahead of time? We do maybe 150 - 200 sheets of 13 x 19 a month @$0.80 per (remember, a lot of reorder work) and ink is dirt, $30.00 a pint, about 4 months worth average. Not that I don't like new equipment (an LED exposure unit to replace our 5K MH is high on the list) but none of us can see the CTS as an advantage at that cost... I hope I haven't hijacked the thread, but I really appreciate the input from everyone.

Steve

[mimosatexas]

I follow these threads, though I don't have a CTS and won't ever get one most likely.  As far as ROI, I think everyone has pretty much conceded in every thread that it would take a high screen volume and a long time to recoup the cost alone.  Many shops probably would never see the actual break even point over an efficient film setup.  At the same time, as you can see in this thread, I think those with a CTS would argue the quality of their work and the quality of life due to workflow efficiency make it worth the investment.  At least that's what I see in every single one of these threads...

[Sbrem]

can anyone post a close up pic of a 50 line halftone on a screen before it burns? Only if you have time of course, I'd like to see the quality of the dots
compared to a piece of film, but I know everyone's busy, so only if it's convenient.

Steve

I know for a fact that we could not cycle through as many jobs per day when we are busy without it.  As far as film cost justifying the purchase, it doesn't but even if it cost me the same as far as materials to produce a screen using cts, I would still do it just because of the ease of setup now.  I could go back if I absolutely had to but it wouldn't be happily.  Before I did though, I would beg, borrow or steal from Peter to pay Paul to replace it.

What press do you run? Were you using a TriLoc before?

Steve

[DannyGruninger]

Broken record here...... Without dts I would quit...... I have absolutely no desire to print another film ever

[3Deep]

If I could afford a Mercedes I would never drive any other car, why because it rides and drives like a dream looks nice and makes me feel special, why don't I like driving a VW bug slow, don't drive good and it makes me feel cheap...now the big thing I see a dts/cts is perfectly registered screens 99.99% of the time without a lot of work

[ol man]

If I could afford a Mercedes I would never drive any other car, why because it rides and drives like a dream looks nice and makes me feel special, why don't I like driving a VW bug slow, don't drive good and it makes me feel cheap...now the big thing I see a dts/cts is perfectly registered screens 99.99% of the time without a lot of work

yes sir -- the real savings would be the reduction of downtime on press....

[jvanick]

here's the way I look at it.

- Savings in film -- roughly $100-$200 per week depending on the season
- Savings in registration time -- I don't have to register films to carrier sheets, I don't have to register on press (most of our jobs go on with no microing these days, if we need to micro it's a quick shift)
- No pinholes
- Better exposed screens due to no glass and no film haloing...
- No need for registration marks on most jobs (all?  -- we RARELY print registration marks anymore)
- Less tape to pull at washout due to no registration marks and no pinholes.
- no cost in folders to archive films
- no time in archiving films
- quicker exposure times
- WAY quicker learning curve for a new hire to expose screens and have them in just as good of registration as anybody on staff

I agree with Danny-- if we had to go back to film, I'd quit the industry.

[dirkdiggler]

Film for us was always a pain to dig up. I can't tell you how many times we'd dig up a job and find 1 of the flims was missing or some issue with it. Sure we could have been better at it but we no longer have to worry about that.  So when your doing film you must count time spent putting it away and finding it again plus time spent lining it up on your FPU.

I wouldn't go back, id even suggest id take a less amazing press than ditch my CTS.

agree!

[Doug S]

can anyone post a close up pic of a 50 line halftone on a screen before it burns? Only if you have time of course, I'd like to see the quality of the dots
compared to a piece of film, but I know everyone's busy, so only if it's convenient.

Steve

I know for a fact that we could not cycle through as many jobs per day when we are busy without it.  As far as film cost justifying the purchase, it doesn't but even if it cost me the same as far as materials to produce a screen using cts, I would still do it just because of the ease of setup now.  I could go back if I absolutely had to but it wouldn't be happily.  Before I did though, I would beg, borrow or steal from Peter to pay Paul to replace it.

What press do you run? Were you using a TriLoc before?

I have a 10 color sportsman E.  I wasn't using the triloc but something pretty similar.

Steve

[LuckyFlyinROUSH]

If I lost this machine in a fire...it would be replaced immediately. I'll never go back to film. Was it worth the 62k...I'm a cheap ass so I'll say no. It's just a damn over sized printer... 62k is kind of crazy if you think about it

It has however in my mind paid for itself already (6 months). The output my shop has seen from pre-I-Image to now has been over double, especially on our small runs days. Majority of smaller runs 36-200. 2-6 colors mostly.  This is partially due to we never used tri-lock before. For instance today on one press we printed
2054imp 61 setups 28 jobs...

We run a tight ship. So tight that I'll even go in and burn screens so my guys can stay on the presses. If I believe that I am worth XXX$ per hour as I bring in all of the work to make the company tick.....etc then the I-Image has paid for itself.

[GraphicDisorder]

I think once some shops finally dip into CTS they will sing the same tune we all are that have them. Wish they did it sooner, didn't understand fully how good it makes the process, wouldn't live without it and at the end of the day a drop in the bucket as far as cost to run a shop.

[mk162]

what I love is I can run a job and say, hey next time I would do this, so I change it in the file and next time it's fixed.  No need to file or output film. just pull the file and hit print

pinholes...man do I not miss those.  I get them every 100 screens or so.  Mainly because we still shoot through glass, but we are raised off it 1/4" so we don't smear the print.  It slows the expo time down enough to help us dial it in better.  and I never got around to building a drawer under the glass.

[Doug S]

what I love is I can run a job and say, hey next time I would do this, so I change it in the file and next time it's fixed.  No need to file or output film. just pull the file and hit print

pinholes...man do I not miss those.  I get them every 100 screens or so.  Mainly because we still shoot through glass, but we are raised off it 1/4" so we don't smear the print.  It slows the expo time down enough to help us dial it in better.  and I never got around to building a drawer under the glass.

A prime example of that is the other day I had a 7 color simulated job setup on press and the client was super picky about the job and told me the black was too dark so I adjusted the black in the original separations and reprinted that 1 screen.  I set the second black up with the triloc and it was spot on.  With the old way I would've had to leave the original films on the FPU to do the same.  If I had moved the originals to make more screens for another job, I would've had some microing to do for sure.

[Homer]

what I love is I can run a job and say, hey next time I would do this, so I change it in the file and next time it's fixed.  No need to file or output film. just pull the file and hit print

pinholes...man do I not miss those.  I get them every 100 screens or so.  Mainly because we still shoot through glass, but we are raised off it 1/4" so we don't smear the print.  It slows the expo time down enough to help us dial it in better.  and I never got around to building a drawer under the glass.

not to hijack even further but are you using that Bulls Eye reg pallet system or whatever it's called? I know you tested that out a few years back. I have a homemade reg pallet and it's on, but only about 90% of the time. Not good enough to capitalize on our dts investment. I may have to buy a triloc platen or something. I was hoping that jig was the ticket..

[Doug S]

what I love is I can run a job and say, hey next time I would do this, so I change it in the file and next time it's fixed.  No need to file or output film. just pull the file and hit print

pinholes...man do I not miss those.  I get them every 100 screens or so.  Mainly because we still shoot through glass, but we are raised off it 1/4" so we don't smear the print.  It slows the expo time down enough to help us dial it in better.  and I never got around to building a drawer under the glass.

not to hijack even further but are you using that Bulls Eye reg pallet system or whatever it's called? I know you tested that out a few years back. I have a homemade reg pallet and it's on, but only about 90% of the time. Not good enough to capitalize on our dts investment. I may have to buy a triloc platen or something. I was hoping that jig was the ticket..

I'm the one who made the bulls-eye jig.  I could never get the clamping system 100% the way I wanted it.  With it, I was about where you are, about 90%.  My eyesight is getting worse so it was only as good as I was as far as placing films.  When I went cts I went ahead and bought the triloc with it so that the stops would match.