Ryonet FX LED Exposure Unit

[alan802]

But Alex, have you seen it in person?  That does seem pretty far out there considering.  I won't go as far as to say it's impossible but wow, I'd love to know more about it and get my hands on it.  On a similar note, I'd like to see someone printing some of the WB inks I've tried through a 420, not impossible probably but I'd love to see it. And Sergey is on a manual and I thought he was running 305's?

[GreenGalaxy]

I an not a Ryonet employee!   

[Dottonedan]

I don't know. I think  maybe, he's addressing a post I made just this morning pertaining to 100lpi.  http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,15611.msg149777.html#msg149777
In my case tho, I was referring to using 100lpi of the I-Image for screen printing on paper for poster etc.  In addition, in his defense, he didn't actually describe what substrate he would be intending that 100lpi for.

Now, the negative is, similar to the Video touting to hold a 5% dot of an 85lpi (mesh on a 230) is out of place.
Here, this gentleman indicated using a 305 (and holding all the halftones) on an 81lpi.  A note about people indicating they are using an extreme lpi on a lower mesh. When they do this, often yes, it can be done. It can be done using an 81 lpi on a 305, but no. Not even with dual cure, can you actually print the "full" tonal range. It just don't compute. That is simply because of the math in the mesh thread size versus the math in the dot size of an 80lpi (in the lower ranges (as most of us know here). So yes, some do actually claim to expose and print 81, and even 100lpi but the lower sized (highlight dots) and the shadow dots cannot be held and get blocked by mesh thread at a specific size ratio.


This is where people get tripped up. They mention that "they are holding" the 5% in an 85lpi. Whats that mean tho?  That simply says yes, my exposure unit can EXPOSE IT ...AND IT WASHED OUT. In truth, you can hold 100 lpi and wash it out...on a 110 mesh. That doesn't mean it's going to print on a tee. That is not saying that I can expose it, hold it in the screen, AND, I can push ink thru those areas...and it's getting printed on the tee.


There are a few shops that advertise printing with 85 lpi and even 100lpi.  What they are actually doing tho, is using the mid tone ranges and stretching that out across the art. In other words, those that do actually use 85-100lpi don't actually claim to use anything less than a 15% dot or above 75% in the shadow tones in that 85 lpi. I can see the benefits (since yes, you can hold from 15% to 75% and THAT is what they are working with. These smaller dots (as compared to a 55-65) mid tone range provide great image detail on press.


So, all in all we do smell something. Maybe it's just some half truths. I'm open to be corrected. If I'm wrong, I don't mind being wrong as long as I get to understand where and how got there so I don't tell someone else the wrong information.


D

I have been doing all of the Beta Testing for the FX LED Exporsure unit. Ryonet asked me to handle the production testing before they released to the market. I have enjoyed the unit a lot. I use SP-1400 and I print 100% waterbased inks and discharge. This unit has had great results with exposure keeping detail and making a durable emulsion. 305 mesh is burning 81 lpi, keep all halftones, is at 35 seconds. 230 mech is at 45 seconds and holds all halftones at 55 lpi. 180LX mesh is burning at 1:00.

Part of the unit being app enabled is that soon you will be able to have the app on your phone and be able to control the unit from anywhere. It also will notify you when the exposure is complete if you have to walk away from the unit.



I will be performing testing soon with 450 mech at 100+ lpi which I am very confident in the unit to be able to hold all of the halftones.

I have read through a lot of the posts and I am very surprise on how many people resort to bashing a product that has only been out for a few days without even seeing it in person or working with one. I have been working with this unit for over a month now and I have no complaints on the unit at all.

81 to 100+ LPI waterbase work is impressive, I mean impossible. Why don't you post up a pic of that shirt. Keeping "all the halftones" at that LPI means one of two things. Your setting for LPI is way off or your just full of it. I really don't care to prove you wrong.  I want to make sure no one believes this and spends money on the unit only to be disappointed.

Please don't take this as bashing the unit. It looks good and I am sure it can do just as good as a MH unit. The times you said in your post make me think it is not nearly as fast as a LED unit should be. My MH can burn faster then that.

Please post a pic of that shirt in waterbase at 81 lpi.

[Screened Gear]

81 to 100+ LPI waterbase work is impressive, I mean impossible. Why don't you post up a pic of that shirt. Keeping "all the halftones" at that LPI means one of two things. Your setting for LPI is way off or your just full of it. I really don't care to prove you wrong.  I want to make sure no one believes this and spends money on the unit only to be disappointed.

Please post a pic of that shirt in waterbase at 81 lpi.

It is doable. You are coming off a bit harsh man! I have talked with 2 different people/companies printing WB through a 420 or something.
Sergey, in Russia was pulling off 95 lpi and his stuff was killer!

Alex,
I understand that it is doable to burn a screen at that LPI. I also know people are doing it. I just know this guy is not. The guys that are at the top of their game like that will ways justify what they are saying.  When they are talking about that type of high quality work they tell you about the lose and would never say "burning 81 lpi, keep all halftones". Maybe this guy is that good but he is leaving out alot of detail. Leaving out detail like that is what a sales person will do to get you exited about the possibilities.

I am only "being harsh" so our fellow members get the truth and not spend money on a lie or part lie.

[Screened Gear]

I don't know. I think  maybe, he's addressing a post I made just this morning pertaining to 100lpi.  http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,15611.msg149777.html#msg149777
In my case tho, I was referring to using 100lpi of the I-Image for screen printing on paper for poster etc.  In addition, in his defense, he didn't actually describe what substrate he would be intending that 100lpi for.

Now, the negative is, similar to the Video touting to hold a 5% dot of an 85lpi (mesh on a 230) is out of place.
Here, this gentleman indicated using a 305 (and holding all the halftones) on an 81lpi.  A note about people indicating they are using an extreme lpi on a lower mesh. When they do this, often yes, it can be done. It can be done using an 81 lpi on a 305, but no. Not even with dual cure, can you actually print the "full" tonal range. It just don't compute. That is simply because of the math in the mesh thread size versus the math in the dot size of an 80lpi (in the lower ranges (as most of us know here). So yes, some do actually claim to expose and print 81, and even 100lpi but the lower sized (highlight dots) and the shadow dots cannot be held and get blocked by mesh thread at a specific size ratio.


This is where people get tripped up. They mention that "they are holding" the 5% in an 85lpi. Whats that mean tho?  That simply says yes, my exposure unit can EXPOSE IT ...AND IT WASHED OUT. In truth, you can hold 100 lpi and wash it out...on a 110 mesh. That doesn't mean it's going to print on a tee. That is not saying that I can expose it, hold it in the screen, AND, I can push ink thru those areas...and it's getting printed on the tee.


There are a few shops that advertise printing with 85 lpi and even 100lpi.  What they are actually doing tho, is using the mid tone ranges and stretching that out across the art. In other words, those that do actually use 85-100lpi don't actually claim to use anything less than a 15% dot or above 75% in the shadow tones in that 85 lpi. I can see the benefits (since yes, you can hold from 15% to 75% and THAT is what they are working with. These smaller dots (as compared to a 55-65) mid tone range provide great image detail on press.


So, all in all we do smell something. Maybe it's just some half truths. I'm open to be corrected. If I'm wrong, I don't mind being wrong as long as I get to understand where and how got there so I don't tell someone else the wrong information.


D

I have been doing all of the Beta Testing for the FX LED Exporsure unit. Ryonet asked me to handle the production testing before they released to the market. I have enjoyed the unit a lot. I use SP-1400 and I print 100% waterbased inks and discharge. This unit has had great results with exposure keeping detail and making a durable emulsion. 305 mesh is burning 81 lpi, keep all halftones, is at 35 seconds. 230 mech is at 45 seconds and holds all halftones at 55 lpi. 180LX mesh is burning at 1:00.

Part of the unit being app enabled is that soon you will be able to have the app on your phone and be able to control the unit from anywhere. It also will notify you when the exposure is complete if you have to walk away from the unit.



I will be performing testing soon with 450 mech at 100+ lpi which I am very confident in the unit to be able to hold all of the halftones.

I have read through a lot of the posts and I am very surprise on how many people resort to bashing a product that has only been out for a few days without even seeing it in person or working with one. I have been working with this unit for over a month now and I have no complaints on the unit at all.

81 to 100+ LPI waterbase work is impressive, I mean impossible. Why don't you post up a pic of that shirt. Keeping "all the halftones" at that LPI means one of two things. Your setting for LPI is way off or your just full of it. I really don't care to prove you wrong.  I want to make sure no one believes this and spends money on the unit only to be disappointed.

Please don't take this as bashing the unit. It looks good and I am sure it can do just as good as a MH unit. The times you said in your post make me think it is not nearly as fast as a LED unit should be. My MH can burn faster then that.

Please post a pic of that shirt in waterbase at 81 lpi.

Dan said it much better then I did. I don't have the time to write it up like Dan. Good post Dan.

[Dottonedan]

and now, I'll quote and comment.


Winston/Darryl,
It's no secret (it's right here in black and white) unedited that this really never started out, nor currently is as a bash fest. Sure, there will always be 1 or 2 out of 10-20 that will read something else out of it. Been that way for...well, since the internet.


What you see here, are savvy people discussing what they see in the vid. They talk about what they read and see and then, just like you two assumed or read BASHING, these folks read and see....what they see. Much of what they see...seems feasible to argue...or question and if anything, "talk about" on a forum. That's what we do. We review, we question, we answer, we dig deeper for more correct answers and hopefully, we answer others correctly.  So yes, someone posting up a new product will get talked about. Isn't that what someone put it here for?


Sometimes, people say, Well, if you'e let other manufactures in here...or, ...if you weren't always just touting BLUE, others might show up. That's just not true. We've offered, encouraged, and even personally invited others here. Some came and couldn't hold their own. The thing is, sometimes others don't want to be brought up in a conversation for various reasons and some for more obvious reasons. Now, I've also heard from a couple people still on this forum such as Darryl that (every time someone promotes a product, they get compared to M&R). Really? Well, yes, they do. Why is that really? It's more than likely because a very large portion of ANY forum, is going to have M&R products. Most all have "something" that is M&R and someone may not like them for what ever reason, but they can never doubt the over all reputation of that Co. So why compare to M&R?  Well, why compare Trump to Oboma? Because these two are currently the ones being talked about or are in question. We all know when you're on top, you're a target or maybe the bench mark etc. This place is not an M&R forum but like any forum, or screen print related site where printers gather, it's going to have people on it that own something M&R. You can see banners here for other manufacturers. Why is it that most of the talk can be having to do with M&R then? Probably because there is a ton of equipment out there owned by screen printers who go to forums...that own an M&R. Why is everyone always posting nothing but praises?  Well?  Thats a good thing right? Actual owners praising the quality and the service. It's no secret that most are very happy...Tho there are some that are not, I'm sure. When another product gets put out there, and M&R has one of those products that do the same thing, it's going to be compared to them. It's kind of obvious isn't it? It's just the way it is. It's life and there isn't anything wrong with that.  When someone needs seps, and they look at different separators, I'm not compared to a beginner artist/separator. I'm compared to other good separators. I'm sure that when someone wants a dryer worked on, they may compare you to someone else that is known for being as good.


I just didn't feel the "bashing" term was a justified statement. If something just isn't right...and you state that it isn't right and explain how it's not, ....that's not "bashing", That's informing.  Sure, some people are a little more colorful than others, but that's people.  Just today, my son is ticked at my wife. Why? Because she said something that didn't mean a thing to her, but it rubbed him the wrong way. We are all different in how we see things.


That's all.


Dan

Darryl, My position is the same as yours on the matter.Frog, Regardless of who, Ryonet markets to, it is their choice to continue or expand those markets.In all honesty, very few of my customers read this, or any other board, for that fact.they are most of the times, just to busy to spend time on forums.They would average 500-1000 screens per day.IMHO if you want this board to grow, many competing companies should be encouraged, to participate / advertise.It is good for This board, It is good for the Industry.Darryl, I always enjoy your post/insight. You have my respect!winston

(EDIT) note.  I came in to edit the QUOTES to break them up so you could see who's quoting who. It was a little jumbled.

Dan

I know I should shut up here, but I'm going to toss my 2 cent in, I agree with Alan the starlight I tested in my shop blew me away, and if we had heavy production going on everyday I would have ordered one that day.  With all that said, you guys are doing what you normally do bashing!!!! before you even had a change to work with this unit Ryonet is promoting, this is the reason I'm pulling back from the forum some, take a read of the post so far and tell me what you've read.  I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings, but dang can't we ever have a complete post without tossing M&R in the mix when talking about another companies equipment, I did look at the vid and the unit looks very interesting maybe a few things for glam that has nothing to do with exposure, I'll wait until someone puts it in there shop for real production and that will tell the tail.

I don't see a major bash-fest here. What I see mostly is input from a very different forum crowd than Ryonet generally markets to (though in all fairness, they didn't start this thread).
Unlike TSF, our crowd is generally more experienced, and criticism tends to be from  a fairly discriminatory direction. They don't believe everything they hear, or take all claims at face value.
Don't lump this in with how Anatol has been treated. Though they are apparently working hard to shake a less-than-stellar reputation, they earned that rep fair and square, and some folks are a mite wary and/or dubious.

Don't pull back from here too much buddy, I'll miss your often creative punctuation. LOL! 

LOL Frog I ain't going to far I'd put you out of punctuation correction work, yeah I know this crowd has a few vet's here and some of us think we are vets(me).  Yeah winston is correct Rich & company have gain respect and you'll never here me put them down, but I still like to hear about other equipment companies product at least 5 post before they get compared to Smurf Crew LOL

[GreenGalaxy]

I would like to pose a question to this group.  What light source makes a better stencil, single point or multi point?

[Rockers]

Rockers, do you have the upgraded vacuum pump/system in your unit?  How long are your vacuum draw down times?  In the beginning I was as disappointed in this aspect but overall the inability to do something in getting a nice, full exposed stencil that has always been so easy with the Richmond metal halide is costing us more time than the extended vacuum time.

We bought our unit in late 2014, apparently that was already the upgraded version.
Still it takes a good 20 sec for the pump to draw down the blanket completely, it`s pretty noisy too. I just read the product sheet for the Vastex LED again yesterday just so that I could go to bed feeling really disappointed. It`s says "Expose very fine detail and halftones" which is just not true, at least not in our case.

[Screened Gear]

I would like to pose a question to this group.  What light source makes a better stencil, single point or multi point?

I guess I will play.

The best light source is a single point or single direction light in the correct wave length for the emulsion. The reason for this is so the light does not undercut the film.

Here is questions for you...

Would a point light source or multi source light be better for a Direct to screen setup?

What kind of light is LED light?

OK I will answer this one:
LEDs are “directional” light sources, which means they emit light in a specific direction, unlike incandescent and compact fluorescent bulbs, which emit light and heat in all directions. For this reason, LED lighting is able to use light and energy more efficiently in many applications.

Now one more question... Why would a LED exposure unit need to be Point light if the light only travels in one Direction?

For the record I don't subscribe to LEDs being only one directional. A single LED will not shoot a fine beam of light. This means it does have an array of light. I maybe wrong.

[GreenGalaxy]

In my opinion a point light source will always make a better screen at optimal exposure time. 

[Dottonedan]

It's true that any light source is going to have some kind of span of residual light outside the path. I believe tho, that an LED has the least out of the options by a large difference and when comparing one LED exposure system to another, there are still some great differences yet. Add to that, the spacing and then also the total number of these lights.


I don't knock whats out there. I think there should be price point options. Some need a lower cost hammer while others need something better, so they pay a little more. Some of these other lower cost LED systems might be a good choice over the old Flo bulbs if you can't yet afford something better. Will each of these LED sources be everything you're looking for?  No, not all the time, so dig deep and compare and weigh it out.

[jvanick]

I still believe that any of these lower cost options will produce better screens than FL units.

We here are so used to top of the line, wanting to get the best results possible with what we have.  Many smaller shops and more advanced basement/garage printers could benefit greatly from something affordable.

Would be curious of the retail price on this unit tho.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I still believe that any of these lower cost options will produce better screens than FL units.

We here are so used to top of the line, wanting to get the best results possible with what we have.  Many smaller shops and more advanced basement/garage printers could benefit greatly from something affordable.

Would be curious of the retail price on this unit tho.

I believe 4k for a tabletop unit. I think Workhorse leads the pack in affordability at around 2500

[jvanick]

At 4k for a tabletop unit, that's quite pricey...

[jvieira]

Indeed it is. I expected it to be a lot cheaper.

Part of the unit being app enabled is that soon you will be able to have the app on your phone and be able to control the unit from anywhere. It also will notify you when the exposure is complete if you have to walk away from the unit.

I don't see the point in this. Why do you need a notification after a 30 seconds exposure? We are currently taking 10 minutes per exposure, THAT would take an app, but 30/40 seconds? And what is there to control on an exposure unit aside from time? And you need to be close to it, it's bluetooth, not wireless.