E-Stop botton dumb idea

[3Deep]

Note... I believe if the press is in mid index, and a safety bar is hit, it acts like the E-Stop button. If the press is in mid print, and the safety bar is hit, it finishes the cycle?? Maybe Darryl can confirm this?

Yes the safety bar stops the machine, but a little slower, I've hit it a much more than the skip shirt button.  Oh and yes I think it just did what you said dumped air at the wrong spot nothing broke no problems.

Darryl

[blue moon]

I thought if I put it in quotes it wouldn't replace it but now my post looks even more ridiculous.  Fork.  fork.  fOrK

we accidentally included an asterisk in the filter so it was stopping anything starting with f and ending in k. That was bad move. It was fixed, sorry for the confusion!

pierre

[terryei]

there has been a lot of discussion about the e-stop elsewhere.
I didn't respond there but I will here.
We had a printer that used the e-stop, almost daly.  Nothing happened, but we do have a smaller auto.  I think it should be used for it's intention only, for and emergency.  I don't think a missed shirt is that.
Being around machines (other than screen printing) for a long time I understand the need for these buttons.  I do not believe that in an emergency when the e-stop is hit that it should render the machine with badley broken parts.  I understand this is not the case with some machines.  There does not seem to be this problem in the past until somebody's machine broke while using/testing/hitting the e-stop.  And then the spinning (and I don't mean the machine) started.  I also don't think you will find a manufacturer to tell you to NOT hit the e-stop.  You'll never see that in writing, too many lawyers.
Bottom line, for me, some machines can NOT take an e-stop hit, some can.
If it is an emergency, use it, otherwise DON'T
Terry

[prozyan]

In the vein of the e-stop causing things to break and in the interest of fairness, I think it should be pointed out there was only one silly person claiming the part breaking was intentional and by design.  Everyone else who commented said nope, that's not supposed to happen, it shouldn't have happened, and we're going to investigate, find out why it happened, and prevent it from happening in the future.

Not that I would ever come near that brand, nor sticking up for said brand, just trying to keep things fair.

[Gilligan]

In the vein of the e-stop causing things to break and in the interest of fairness, I think it should be pointed out there was only one silly person claiming the part breaking was intentional and by design.  Everyone else who commented said nope, that's not supposed to happen, it shouldn't have happened, and we're going to investigate, find out why it happened, and prevent it from happening in the future.

Not that I would ever come near that brand, nor sticking up for said brand, just trying to keep things fair.

The sad thing is, he hasn't let go of that position yet.

[tonypep]

Actually he has.......privately.

[GraphicDisorder]

Bottom line, for me, some machines can NOT take an e-stop hit, some can.
If it is an emergency, use it, otherwise DON'T
Terry

I agree, and to add to that, imagine what else they are not built as well on the machines?  I doubt we are all going to assume that's the only thing they got wrong.  We already know that to be false even.  Hell even their own customers chose a Mustang over it when given the choice after the fact.  Goes to show you the consumer confidence in the unmentioned is crap.

In the vein of the e-stop causing things to break and in the interest of fairness, I think it should be pointed out there was only one silly person claiming the part breaking was intentional and by design.  Everyone else who commented said nope, that's not supposed to happen, it shouldn't have happened, and we're going to investigate, find out why it happened, and prevent it from happening in the future.

Not that I would ever come near that brand, nor sticking up for said brand, just trying to keep things fair.

I agree, and kudos to them for that.  The other guy on the other hand.....shame on him. 

Actually he has.......privately.

What he can't man up and say he was wrong?  Dude lives and dies by whatever he spew's out of his mouth even if he realizes it was wrong. 

[Gilligan]

Hell even their own customers chose a Mustang over it when given the choice after the fact.  Goes to show you the consumer confidence in the unmentioned is crap.

Actually I see it as he pushed that product on the customer OVER the Printex.  That still speaks volumes about several things.

[GraphicDisorder]

It's amazing to me.  Consider how much time each one has spent waiting on a press.

The amount of money they could have made during the waiting game is staggering.  If they had ordered a M&R or Anatol or RPM or so on for example they would have had it in a reasonable amount of time.  Instead they choose to "save" money on a transaction which if you actually do the math they lost money.  But hey who's splitting hairs right?  LOL.

BTW anyone who is wandering, my press doesn't explode when you hit the E-stop and it still functions perfect to this day, have had to do nothing to it what so ever.  Don't have a single bitch. 

[alan802]

I'm pretty sure (not 100% so don't take this to the bank) that the replacement part came in recently and it also failed.  I wonder if they attemped the e-stop again and the same thing happened and if that is the case, they should have known they were going to try that so I really hope they sent more than one replacement capture fork, but I don't think that is the case.  I was told they were having a machine shop in town fabricate the part.  I actually thought that while they waited on the part from Poland that they could have someone fabricate one to see if it would work.  Having a machine shop fab one would have been the first thing I did when the problem came up, but I'm just a screen printer and don't really know if that part could be made as well at a local machine shop as it needs to be.

[Gilligan]

There is a machine shop SOMEWHERE in Houston that could have EASILY knocked that part out.  They have some serious shops in Houston due to the oil field.  Hell, they could have easily done that in Lafayette for the same reasons and Lafayette is a FRACTION of the size of Houston.

[pwalsh]

I'm pretty sure (not 100% so don't take this to the bank) that the replacement part came in recently and it also failed.  I wonder if they attemped the e-stop again and the same thing happened and if that is the case, they should have known they were going to try that so I really hope they sent more than one replacement capture fork, but I don't think that is the case.  I was told they were having a machine shop in town fabricate the part.  I actually thought that while they waited on the part from Poland that they could have someone fabricate one to see if it would work.  Having a machine shop fab one would have been the first thing I did when the problem came up, but I'm just a screen printer and don't really know if that part could be made as well at a local machine shop as it needs to be.

Alan:  It’s certainly possible that a replacement capture fork could have been made locally in Houston, but doing it right is a fairly involved process.  This part has a number of wear surfaces that include where the cam follower runs, and also the sliding surfaces of the fork itself.  In order to ensure accurate location and long service life these wear surfaces need to be heat treated and then precision finished.  It would have seemed to me that dropping a replacement part into a FedEx international pack from Poland would have been the quickest way to get the part onsite.

In any case I’m sure that Robert and his team know what they’re doing, and that they will get the press up and running in short time.  I really think that Brian (Binkspot) is one of the best assets that the manufacturer has on their side to get the press repaired, and as long as there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the design, engineering, or manufacture of the press, he’ll get it right.  At least we’ve moved on from the nonsense that the capture fork was a deliberately designed sacrificial part, intended to break whenever the machines E-Stop was engaged.

One area where asdf and the customer both got lucky is that Scarborough Specialties has a shop full of M&R equipment that runs every day, so their production is not being totally impacted by the faults with the new machine.  I’d expect that the stress level would be much higher at a shop where the new press was their only source of production.

[GraphicDisorder]

Alan:  It’s certainly possible that a replacement capture fork could have been made locally in Houston, but doing it right is a fairly involved process.  This part as a number of wear surfaces that include where the cam follower runs, and also the sliding surfaces of the fork itself.  In order to ensure accurate location and long service life these wear surfaces need to be heat treated and then precision finished.  It would have seemed to me that dropping a replacement part into a FedEx international pack from Poland would have been the quickest way to get the part onsite.

Why it wasn't overnight shipped is amazing to me.  This is what a 100k machine?  I think there is some wiggle room.  Which judging by some of the quality of things so far about these machines there may be a lot of wiggle room so they should have stepped up. 

In any case I’m sure that Robert and his team know what they’re doing, and that they will get the press up and running in short time.  I really think that Brian (Binkspot) is one of the best assets that the manufacturer has on their side to get the press repaired, and as long as there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the design, engineering, or manufacture of the press, he’ll get it right.  At least we’ve moved on from the nonsense that the capture fork was a deliberately designed sacrificial part, intended to break whenever the machines E-Stop was engaged.

Binkspot is a shinning star in the group of them for sure, I am certain he can replace what is wrong with the machine but as you said he can't change its design so if it's a problem before its likely to continue to be one.  I can almost hear the "don't hit the estop" conversations.  I agree on the nonsense such and such was spewing, I don't think a sole believed that BS though. 

One area where asdf and the customer both got lucky is that Scarborough Specialties has a shop full of M&R equipment that runs every day, so their production is not being totally impacted by the faults with the new machine.  I’d expect that the stress level would be much higher at a shop where the new press was their only source of production.

That's very true and I bet they look at those machines much differently now.  I mean after all it was clearly a habit of the operator to hit the Estop on the M&R's, they are still running.  But 1 hit on the new pos machine and it breaks. 

[alan802]

I kind of figured having a machine shop fabricate one might not be ideal since it was such a logical decision to be made if it were possible, but I also know that machine shops make things much more difficult and for machines way more complicated than an auto so I still think it "could"  be done.

I wonder how it broke this time.  I assume they were testing out the e-stop again and I also assume they knew they were going to try that again as soon as the new part arrived, so did they only ship one capture fork and now they have to go through all this again or did they bring in several forks?  We all know what they should have done and it seems simple to think they would have but you never know.

I have a feeling that it's a design issue and if you were to go press the e-stop on any and all of the 16 color Prisms you'd likely see the same problem.  But we also  know the QC is not as sharp in that plant as it is most other manufacturers so that one machine could have very easily been shipped with a different spec than it should have.  What I'm getting at is maybe the camroll bearing doesn't hit the capture fork in the right location and hits it in a spot where structurally the fork is weak.  The fact that Inkman's machine needed as many shims as it did while another machine manufacturered at the same time was the exact opposite when it comes to printarm height means that they aren't practicing the exacting tolerance standards as they should.

The entire Printex idea seems like a cluster F and there have been so many examples of failures on their part to bring in quality machines.  There have been simple issues with every one that has been installed that none of us that have had an auto installed the last 10 years have had to deal with.  Inkman's machine isn't the only one with little problems that frustrate operators.  I think there are many good things about the presses but the glaring weaknesses completely outshine the good features.  I honestly don't think the Printex plant has the desire to build a machine with the standards we are wanting and I also think they want to stay small and they don't want to overtake M&R as the machine of choice here in the US.

[tpitman]

I also think they want to stay small and they don't want to overtake M&R as the machine of choice here in the US.

If they continue to have quality issues, they won't have any trouble staying small or not overtaking M&R.

I don't have an auto, nor do I ever see myself getting one, but there's nothing worse than getting something new, especially something expensive, just to hit issues like these. Nothing is perfect, but for a company trying to get a foothold here, I'd think they'd be particularly cognizant of quality control, testing assembled presses before shipping to make sure EVERYTHING worked as advertised. Word of mouth from unhappy customers will be tough to overcome, even with cheap prices. If it's unreliable, it ain't cheap.