I Need To Call An Experienced CHILLER Tech

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Full disclosure--I'm a auto press newbie.

I bought a Harbor Freight Compressed Air Dryer, because I needed to watch my expenditures. That, and the reviews were mostly very positive. (Might have been a BIG mistake. Not sure yet)

Well, I didn't think the first one worked, so they replaced it with another one. Now, I think the first one DID actually work (sortof) but its too late now. 

THIS one hasn't removed a single drop of condensate that I can see. I've opened it up and according to my farmboy understanding of sealed refrigerant systems, all seems well. Hi side is HOTT and the Low side is cold.  It just doesn't drip or spit out any moisture from the drain tube. EVER...

And the "OUT" air piping isn't particularly cold.

I can't see anyplace to attach manifold guages to do any pressure diagnostics. The temp gauge reading is attached.



There are some experts out there. But I can't find anybody who KNOWS, that I can actually TALK to.

[jvanick]

does your air compressor have a after-cooler on it?
-- how much water is in the bottom of the tank when you drain it?

are you noticing water in the separator before your press?

we drain roughly a 1/2 cup or so of water a day from our IR rotary screw.

the chiller usually has a bit of moisture at the end of the drain hose.. but I wouldn't say it's a ton... and I only notice it becuase the chiller tube goes into a bucket (when it's REALLY hot and humid here it drains off more water and it was making a mess on the floor).

I wouldn't say the air hose coming out of the chiller is cold to the touch... cool, but not cold.

however, there is definitely condensation on the coils on the back off the chiller.

(I didn't even know HF sold air chillers LOL)

[244]

Full disclosure--I'm a auto press newbie.

I bought a Harbor Freight Compressed Air Dryer, because I needed to watch my expenditures. That, and the reviews were mostly very positive. (Might have been a BIG mistake. Not sure yet)

Well, I didn't think the first one worked, so they replaced it with another one. Now, I think the first one DID actually work (sortof) but its too late now. 

THIS one hasn't removed a single drop of condensate that I can see. I've opened it up and according to my farmboy understanding of sealed refrigerant systems, all seems well. Hi side is HOTT and the Low side is cold.  It just doesn't drip or spit out any moisture from the drain tube. EVER...

And the "OUT" air piping isn't particularly cold.

I can't see anyplace to attach manifold guages to do any pressure diagnostics. The temp gauge reading is attached.



There are some experts out there. But I can't find anybody who KNOWS, that I can actually TALK to.

First not a really good place to try and save money. If your chiller is not working properly it will cost way more in a short time than you could possibly save by buying a good brand. Lot of loose ends here. How big is the compressor/ What type? How far from the compressor is the chiller? Is the chiller HT or regular? (HT means high temperature). What type and size of pipe? Length of run? Getting any water in the bowl on press?

[tonypep]

Send me a PM. I know the best guy on the East Coast

[screenprintguy]

Full disclosure--I'm a auto press newbie.

I bought a Harbor Freight Compressed Air Dryer, because I needed to watch my expenditures. That, and the reviews were mostly very positive. (Might have been a BIG mistake. Not sure yet)

Well, I didn't think the first one worked, so they replaced it with another one. Now, I think the first one DID actually work (sortof) but its too late now. 

THIS one hasn't removed a single drop of condensate that I can see. I've opened it up and according to my farmboy understanding of sealed refrigerant systems, all seems well. Hi side is HOTT and the Low side is cold.  It just doesn't drip or spit out any moisture from the drain tube. EVER...

And the "OUT" air piping isn't particularly cold.

I can't see anyplace to attach manifold guages to do any pressure diagnostics. The temp gauge reading is attached.



There are some experts out there. But I can't find anybody who KNOWS, that I can actually TALK to.

That sucks. I'm running the same $370.00 HF chiller that I bought back in 2007 for our DB. We push 27 CFM of hot wet air through it all day at least 5 days a week and have never had a drop of water at the press. There are settings that you may need to tweak. One thing I do, like now that the shop is over 100 degrees every day. I took the side panels off both sides, and have a high velocity blower fan like this http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/hvac/fans/floor-dryer-blower/floor-dryer-blower   blowing from the coil side. The air being soooooo hot in the shop and the compressor running alot and sucking in that hot air can over heat that little compressor in the chiller, but with the blower crankin some serious cfm across it, it doesn't over heat and drys the crap out of the air. I want to get into a better rig here soon, but that little cheap thing has held its own. For instance, it pulled a good 5 gals of water out of the air yesterday because I had to dump the bucket that it drains into this morning and it was dumped yesterday morning before we got going.

[3Deep]

If you think your chiller is not working and getting water in your press, pop one of your air lines off and let it blow onto a paper towel...if that towel is wet in any way then yes your chiller/dryer ain't doing it's job.  Like every one else said you can check for water droplets in your bowl right where the air/oiler unit is, plus your compressor might not be building up a lot of water in it, I drain ours at least twice a month during these hot summer days.  Our unit is a Harbor Freight dryer model 40211 been working fine for the pass 7 years now and I think we paid like 350 to 390 back then.

D

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

I am so bad about not posting back after I've fixed my problems.

I want to thank all the responders!

I'm not going take time to answer each of the questions one by one, because the problem seems solved. But some General Answers:  This system is paired pretty well for a 5HP Compressor (CHAMPION 2 stage).  And my Compressed Air Dryer is about 15 feet of hose away from the Compressor. The compressor is on the floor and the dryer is on the wall up about 6.5 feet above the floor. 1/2" piping. And it IS the Harbor Freight 40211 which isn't generally available at the retail stores. Like I said the reviews are generally VERY positive and mine was shipped to me from harborfreight.com for just under 400.  (Luckily the drain in the base of the Gauntlet didn't show any water.)

Tony PM'd me his contact's number in the Chatanooga area and in 5 minutes on the phone, my eyes were opened.

Long story short, the chiller's drain is a "float drain" type and it was simply stuck. So I turned off the supplied air at the compressor, and the valve between the HF Dryer and the Gauntlet and vented the entire piping system.  I got a shower bath of water instantly from the Harbor Freight Dryer. So everything was working right, except the drain.

Duh.

Best news is, my press apparently wasn't subjected to a lot of wet air. At least none came out of the drain at all.

Thanks again!
Stan

[screenprintguy]

glad you got it fixed Stan. I didn't even think of that, but I had that problem on the 6th month of running it, shot a little air up in the drain line and never had the issue again. Just for your reference, here is the settings on my stat on the pump side of the unit where the little red reset button is.

[CSPGarrett]

Wanted to chime in, when we installed our Maryland auto didn't exactly know how much of a compressor and chiller we needed.  I dumped a good bit of money into the compressor and got REALLY lucky on the chiller.  I suggest keeping an eye on Amazon if you are looking to replace your chiller in the short/near term.  We got a $2,400 chiller for $800 with two day delivery (no damage on the chiller, brand new). I have found Amazon to be a great place to score great deals if you are patient.  Amazon does clearance of items many times a year to get rid of stock.

It works at 75 CFM and is more than we needed plus it has an "auto" blow to kick out moisture, which we just extended along the wall to the painters sink.  Also, our compressor came with auto drain function every time it kicks on and off.  I definitely see moisture in the chiller line, but never that much.  Due to Maryland humidity and heat (especially this summer) it does run on the higher side.  We have found it is best to clean the chiller every 1-2 weeks or else lint builds up to greatly in front of the coils and will keep the unit runner hotter than it should.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Wow, you got great a deal. Whoda thunk that you could score a chiller on Amazon!

But I'm a little surprised even at the full 2400 clams that your chiller would be a correct match for a 75 CFM pump.

My little chiller (if it really is working now) only has to dry just about a third of that volume.

And @ Mike, is the picture you posted from your Harbor Freight Chiller? I might try some air up the drain tube now and again. Good idea! And in your part of Florida, you must have more moisture than I do in Kansas. Plus my compressor lives in an air conditioned room. (Weird. I know) So there isn't as much moisture in its ambient environment. But WOW...you drained 5 Gallons in one day from your HF 40211?!?!? That's some serious condensate! I have your phone number, but I haven't called you in years. I might now....

And @ Jason, on the first chiller I recieved the "OUT" was really really cold. This one, not so much. When I pulled the plug on my Gauntlet, there was only oil in the pan. Not a single drop of water, foam or whitish looking oil. (WHEW!!) They guy Professor Pepitone referred me to suggested that even though there didn't appear to be any water in the base of the press, I should blow dry air all through the piping and base, by leaving the plug out and turning on the air (with the chiller running of course) for about 5 minutes. I did that. I don't think I have a separator before my press. I'm still really really new to autos, but I'll look. I do have a regulator that has a separator right under my chiller which is up a ways on the wall.

And @ Darryl, I rarely drain my compressor. I did yesterday after reading your post and got just over a gallon. But like I mentioned above, my compressor sits in an air conditioned room. It is just around 35% humidity in there most days. There was a little rust in the 80 gallon tank, which worries me a little. Does yours have a little "red" color (besides oil) showing in the liquid?

And @ Rich, I mentioned a 5HP Champion with about 75 feet of 1/2 piping, but I couldn't find out anything about the High Temp rating of the chiller. It does have a compressor, condenser, and a cooling fan for the condenser. (And I presume an exchanger of some type) It isn't the type shown in the cutaway here:  http://www.jtdryers.com/Order_Now.html

Thanks guys!
Stan

[jvanick]

I don't think I have a separator before my press.

there's not a filter bowl right after the incoming air attaches, before the oiler?

I thought that was standard on all presses (I do know yours is old, so maybe somebody removed it before you got it)

I'm sure that keeping/running your compressor in an air-conditioned room tho helps a TON in keeping water out. 

The HF chillers are only rated to 140 degrees incoming air, which is considered a 'low-temp' unit..  a high-temp unit is typcially rated 180 to 200 degrees....  this is all dependant on the temperature of the air from your air compressor, which in your case is likely quite low due to the room/air temp and compressor staying cool. 

This is why you see air compressors with a 'after-cooler' which usually looks a bit like a radiator behind the fan that the air from the compressor heads goes through before going into the tank.  It helps cool the air, and let the moisture land at the bottom of the tank before leaving.

If you're concerned, after a good sized run, feel/temp gun the air hose leaving the compressor going into the chiller and see how hot it is... if it's hot too the hand or over say 120 degrees, you may want to look into rigging something. 

[screenprintguy]

Yeah man, if the press is running all day pretty much none stop besides break downs and set ups, it's a ton of wet cfm coming out of the compressor. Sometimes it's almost like a light drizzle. I found my guy hadn't drained the compressor since last week which I'm sure doesn't help. The humidity has been horrible here.

[Underbase37]

Quick tip. Hook up a timed solenoid drain valve to your air compressors drain, and never worry about if someone drained the compressor again.



Murphy37

[Zelko-4-EVA]

the solenoid drains are a great invention - we have a 25hp screw compressor that has one built in - i also have one on the wet air tank (air tank before the chiller) and another auto drain on a filter before the air chiller.   all the solenoid auto drains empty into a filter system that cleans the water so it can be safe for the drain.  the filter is like an industrial sized britta filter - oil absorbing material on one side and a charcoal filter on the other.  i wouldnt drink the water, but it cleans the oil out of the water.  after the filter it goes into a condensate drain and then pumped out the window (we are on the 5th floor).

the auto solenoid drains are great so you wont have to worry about water in the compressor and tanks.  its as simple as reading the instructions and a few air fittings.   the timed drains open up on a timed schedule.  there are other models that have a float that triggers the solenoid and then opens the valve to dump the water - this prevents wasting air (if there isnt any water to drain, it dosent open).    timed drains at grainger run about $100.  float style can run about 250 and up.

[screenprintguy]

looking those up right now, I've heard about them and knowing some of you guys use them and rely on them confirms that it's what we need. it is a pain in the arse getting down there to do that and after a few days of solid running that is a ton of water dumping out of there leaving a huge nasty puddle to be soaked up with old shirts, so this i'm sure a hose can be ran out the wall, but I would like to find our more about the filter thingy too for catching any oil that's in that nasty water. Thanks for the tips guys!! See Stan, your question is helping on all fronts of quality air