Newman Frames goof

[mooseman]

we use bolt material, Sefar and S mesh, stretch MZX frames with no trouble, we typically get tight corners and readings within 2-3 Nm without any extra effort.
Trying to get the tensions dead equal in both directions is not that important unless you are doing some super technical printing. It is more important to get the tension up into the area that it should be , if you need 30Nm and get 28 & 31 you are pretty good to go in my shop.  Besides I would suggest that everything else in most shops is not dialed in within 2 or 3 % of some target number. Example dryer temps, EOM, and screen tensions.
The key is correctly softening the corners ESPECIALLY if stretching square bar frames.
mooseman

[GaryG]

Panels are ok but the corners are a little too soft for our taste. We use bolt mesh for more control in that area.

I have remarked that the corners on panels are for babies being so soft, but I'm sure they were engineered that way.
Much less sweet spot for sure on 23X31's. Not too fond of it, one of those pet peeves you know.

"Roll on" Daryl 

[ABuffington]

The issue I see with Newmans is they get pretty beat up over time.  For S mesh the channels need to be nick free as well as the locking strips.  Shurloc is the best answer for old Newmans that are beat up.  The mesh rests on the Shurloc plastic strip, not on the sharp edge of the channel.  Sand the channel well with 600 wet and dry if using bolt mesh, along with the edges of the strips.  One trick I have seen is to take a piece of 1/2" masking tape and wrap it around the inside edge of the channel.  Place half on the roller and wrap the other half around the edge and use a credit card to get under the lip of the inside edge.  This tape will help soften the sharp inside edge of a Newman.

On the other hand Statics with Smartmesh from Murakami retain tension better than any other mesh and can achieve a good work hardened level for the life of the static.  Mesh memory is what Smartmesh is known for.  Registration is excellent with or without Newmans.

Al

[Orion]

Rollers prepped with white Polyken solvent resistant tape. I split the two inch into four strips. Splits nicely by hand no cutting.

[Onewithpez]

I bought some used newmans that were beat to hell, after I smoothed them out with steel wool, I wrapped the rollers with the blue r-tape. Everything seems to be holding without issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shurloc]

Hey guys, thought I would chime in since we had so much panel information going on here...

Yes, the panels are more, but you aren't taking into account the rest of the 'stuff' you need for stretching rollers. First off, you would need to count the locking strips which will last you anywhere from 1-10 stretches. Those guys are about $7 a frame (so about a buck a stretch) - dropping our difference to $17, right?

I can then stretch a panel perfectly in about 5 minutes vs. 15 minutes for working with bolt mesh. Now before everyone jumps in with their I can stretch one in 5 minutes or less, remember, you need to get out the roll of mesh, rip off the chunks you need, then work in the locking strips, which may or may not need to be found, cleaned or worked on, and then begin the actual stretching process. With a panel, everything is attached and is ready to go. So at $50 an hour, that's another $8 right there. That brings us down to $9...

Now, with proper tensioning and softening, that panel should out last bolt mesh by quite some time due to the fact that they are 'perfectly' balanced. If you turn both tubes the same amount, you should have a completely straight and balanced panel. Let's just say that it has a 20% longer life than bolt mesh - so that cuts the price by 20% over doing it the traditional way. So from $25 you are already comparing it to $7 in raw mesh, but in actuality you should be comparing it to more like $9-10 in raw mesh. We're at $7 more now.

After that, you can work in the fact that you need to buy bolt mesh in bulk to get that price - which is a bigger cash outlay. If you only need a yard of 150, you won't pay $7 for it. For example, the 53" yard of 150 is over $15 retail. Now depending on the deal you get that is one thing, but to get 2 23x31's out of that can be a bit challenging for some. So, lets say you get the yard for $10 (a 33% discount) and you get one frame out of it. You'll end up at $4 less than a panel. Loosely translated, if you want to be paid more than $20 an hour for your time, panels almost work out costing you less than bolt mesh.

Now, don't worry, I didn't spend any time putting these numbers together as we know them well enough to say, yes, we are a bit more cash than just buying a yard of mesh and stretching it. That said, you also don't have to pay for all the additional locking strips, clips or skilled labor that you do with bolt stretching.


As far as the softening goes, I've said this before for you guys, but we have various custom shapes that have more and less softening built into them. We have them with the corners pre-cut for the M&R DTS machines. We have them for M1's and M6's. We even have crazy ones for the Diamond Chase Drawbars in our system. If you want to check out the best way to stretch a fabric on the market today, shoot me an email at ron @ shurloc.com and I will get one headed to you - and yes, I can make them with tighter corners if you'd like. We're here to help make you more productive, which means giving your frames more time on the press making you money and less time spent setting up where you aren't making a dime.


PS - Those other panels are not the same thing as ours. If you order one (or better yet have the chance to just look at them) you'll see that there is no accuracy in them. There's no science in making them. Actually, you would probably do better with traditional stretching than you will with getting good results with the poor mesh they use for them.

[Denis Kolar]

I was hesitant of going Newman. It took me a bit of convincing from Roger and then I have found out about panels.
Bought some to try from Shur-Loc and now I have close to 50 manual frames.
Built myself something similar to Accelerator and never looked back.
I never thought about stretching bolt mesh. It does not matter how much money it saves.
With panels and built stretching table it takes me maybe 5 minutes per panel.

[mooseman]

Lets see if I can sum up this panel vs bolt debate.
As a qualifier we re-mesh with bolt material, are a very small 1 person operation and only own about 50 screens.

The basic results of either method is pretty much the same , sure some debate here but for a minute lets say the results are the same when the frame is stretched & ready for print.

The main difference in my mind is exactly the same you see when you think about a machine operator vs  a machinist.
Each man will produce the same quality part.

The machine operator has a great understanding of the process, for his task he  receives a
pre-programmed instruction most likely generated by some other individual that takes the instructions used to operate the machine out of his hands as a step by step process. He integrates the program into the machine, loads the raw material and basically monitors the operation to produce the part. Fast, efficient and most likely cost efficient. I would expect Ford and GM are filled with machine operators.

The machinist has a 360 degree understanding of he same process, for his task he receives a drawing and a piece of raw material. From there he needs to understand the A-Z process and decide how to direct and organize that into the machine one process at a time until the same quality result. Not as fast or efficient and most likely not as cost efficient.

If you are a machine operator you most likely buy panels...if you are a machinist you most likely buy bolt material. At the end of the day
it comes down to balancing  production time, effort and money and each of us get to decide how to manage that balance.


mooseman

[jvanick]

If you are a machine operator you most likely buy panels...if you are a machinist you most likely buy bolt material. At the end of the day it comes down to balancing  production time, effort and money and each of us get to decide how to manage that balance.

Ding ding ding!!!!

Totally right on.

That being said: I would consider myself and our shop more the machine operators.  We like to do as much in as little time as possible and stay efficient.  I invest in tools, products and techniques to get to end of job quicker and better, and to try to take as many of the variables out of the process as possible, because I really enjoy going home at 5 or 6pm and not working 24x7.  Using panels is just one piece in that puzzle, but seriously if I was stretching bolt mesh, I would likely just go back to static frames.

[GaryG]

Been a machinist inserting bolt mesh for 20 years being as technical as
anyone across the country. Now I like being a Zombie machine operator much better using panels.
The time saved with panels, I can now read up on how to be a rocket scientist, and make real money.

All kidding aside, will do both mesh types into my retirement.
Screen printer for life, rocket scientist, not so much.

[ScreenPrinter123]

Panels are ok but the corners are a little too soft for our taste. We use bolt mesh for more control in that area.

Shurloc does some panels using special measurements for us so that the corners aren't too soft.  They are really good about working with us, we just have to be sure to ask for the special specific panels when we order.  After going back and forth and doing a little testing we are very pleased with the corners and have a larger print area like we used to when we did it with bolt mesh.