Sidewinder as a sampling press?

[inkbrigade]

Anyone here using a sidewinder as a sampling press? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to PM me.

[mimosatexas]

Don't have an auto, rarely if ever do sampling, BUT I would think the sidewinder would not be an ideal sampling press as it is limited to 6 screens.  Usually I see people who do a lot of sampling get the Chameleon with more heads so you have the option to quickly pop a different screen in for adjustments during the sampling process and to make sure you can do as many screens as necessary for larger color counts assuming you have a larger auto.  The only people who ever seem to ask me for samples have complex art with more screens.  If your sampling needs are simpler, it is a great press and you would be happy with it I'm sure.

[jvanick]

I'd be super concerned in our shop trying to match print quality between the auto and the manual...  so many variables make a difference in how much ink is being layed down, that for repeat jobs we collect every piece of data we can from our press so that we can set it up exaclty the same way.

heck, we could run 2 sim-proc jobs here, one on the Javelin and one on the Sportsman, and they'd have slightly different results.

My gut would tell me that to do 'true' sampling, your best bet would be another "like" auto.

[Underbase37]

I'd be super concerned in our shop trying to match print quality between the auto and the manual...  so many variables make a difference in how much ink is being layed down, that for repeat jobs we collect every piece of data we can from our press so that we can set it up exaclty the same way.

heck, we could run 2 sim-proc jobs here, one on the Javelin and one on the Sportsman, and they'd have slightly different results.

My gut would tell me that to do 'true' sampling, your best bet would be another "like" auto.

Agreed. This^^

Murphy37

[Frog]

Nonetheless, the Chameleon is considered a sampling press. By some, due to it's heaviness, almost more so than a standard production manual.
It is obviously even more valuable in this capacity to those with M&R autos

[alan802]

Been there, tried that, don't do it anymore.  For spot color jobs, simple stuff yeah, all day long, but for sim process and any job that requires something higher than a 230 I'd worry about getting the ink cleared with one stroke versus 2 and other little things like that.  It routinely takes multiple strokes to print high mesh on the manual versus rarely having to do it on the auto, and that difference in ink deposit on a sim process changes EVERYTHING.  We also had registration issues, or more precisely, getting the job registered on the manual was taking roughly 4-5 times as long.  For those reasons if we needed to sample something I would come in early or do it during our lunch break since it would take 10 minutes to set up a 6 color on the auto and an hour, maybe 2 to get it right on the manual. 

[UltraSeps]

It routinely takes multiple strokes to print high mesh on the manual versus rarely having to do it on the auto, and that difference in ink deposit on a sim process changes EVERYTHING.

That's an excellent point I rarely see brought up in regards to sampling.  Back in my printing days of 30 years I would discuss this with friends who also had large automated shops.  All of them sampled with an auto if a sample was required.  Doing so manually is not the same, as you have clearly stated.  Possibly some can do it effectively, although I never could.

I would however test theories, such as if this or that might work using an 8 color manual.  Although would never use it as a sampling platform for a real job. 

[Frog]

So perhaps the answer is the same as I have given my clients for 25 years. "For absolute consistency with process and even spot color halftones, I'd prefer to put this job on an auto".

Then again, easily 90% of my work is solids. I rarely fire up the RIP

[jvanick]

worse yet with sim process, is that you really need to run a bunch of shirts for the screens to settle in... seems like after the first 30-40 shirts, things are about as consistent as you're going to get them, but those first 10-15 shirts off don't look as vibrant as the rest.

[Evo]

I've owned a Chameleon and while yes, it's the best sampling press you can get for a MANUAL press, it's a heavy SOB and you have to be a bigger person to use it. Small people simply lack the inertia to spin one comfortably when it's fully loaded. An 8 color with 8x roller frames in it is a beast.

That said if your sampling needs are 6 colors or less and you have a skilled manual printer on staff, there is pretty much nothing the Sidewinder can't do that the Chameleon can. With side clamps and air locks on it, it's like 95% of the Chameleon. (save maybe the adjustable spring tension and overall tank build) And you can actually do some production on it without tearing your arms up.

I would say if you are sampling process or sim process where color tone is dependent on ink deposit and dot gain, stick it on the auto. The Sidewinder can do most everything else.