Water Based Tack & Fleece

[Racer Tees]

While out checking out autos with a local rep one day I got turned onto water based tack.  Best thing I have ever done.  We were getting over spray on the race cars that are kept in the shop and couldn't figure it out for the life of us.  Plus the TB-10 lasts WAY longer than the spray tack does.  I can get through a good 150 t-shirts with a fresh coat of TB-10.

Was recommended to use TB-HV for fleece.  It seems to work well, but only lasts 1 sweatshirt/hoodie per application.

How do you guys make it live through a run of hoodies?

[tonypep]

Pretty much can't in my experience as with most/all others. Only downside to the WB tack

[Frog]

On small runs, I use it, and after two shirts, I refresh it with the de-linting routine of water spritz and scrub pad.
For longer runs, unfortunately, it's still the spray stuff, but for that I also use a simple cardboard mask to limit the overspray mess

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Exactly right. I can't do longer fleece runs with waterbased tack. I love the stuff, but hoodies just leave too much crap for  more than about 2 pcs max. Then you've got to de-fuzz.

After I read Frog's idea of making a cardboard masking panel a few years ago, I just go ahead and use spray on the auto for fleece. It's one of the best ideas I've stolen, EVER. (THANKS ANDY!!)

I still do lots of hoodies on my manual, and I just can't seem to get away from waterbased tac on it. I can "lift" the screen slowly if I'm getting some poor ink shearing from the mesh ... on say white ink that isn't happy. Then I know when to de-fuzz or re-apply WB tack before I mess up a blank. Its clearly cheating, but it is a hard habit to break. More off contact along with properlty tensioned mesh is the correct approach, but I have fewer wasted blanks on some fleece with large blocks of white ink, especially. YMMV

I hate spray tac. But my Frog Mask and switching over to what my supplier calls "web spray" has made the stuff less offensive.

Web spray seems more "stringy" but I don't know how it works.

I use LOW TACK transfer paper for my pallets. I comes off waaaay easier after a hoodie run.

[jvanick]

it depends on the fleece...

100% poly "performance" fleece works just fine with waterbase tack...  we were able to run approx 40 hoods per application of tack.

standard gildan/hanes/etc cotton and poly/cotton fleece needs webtack.... sucks, but it is what it is.

[Robert Clark]

This is a nice little product .. It will do what the TB-HV cannot .. But would need the spray gun system Tb 500 or TB 1000. Which makes it nice if you run autos.

 http://tekmarltd.com/products/adhesive/tekmar-tb-ez-high-tack-adhesive-for-performance-fabrics/

[Colin]

We use the Tekmar here.  GREAT Stuff!  We get about 400-700 pcs per "cleaning" (we scrub the boards with water and a scotch bright scour pad) on standard PC and gildan type garments.  Your milage may vary on the slick coated crap on the market.....

Still the same issues with standard fleece - without a spray adhesion system - .... max 2 garments before to many fibers have destroyed the tack.

If you have access to a spray gun, use it. 

[Frog]

This is a nice little product .. It will do what the TB-HV cannot .. But would need the spray gun system Tb 500 or TB 1000. Which makes it nice if you run autos.

 http://tekmarltd.com/products/adhesive/tekmar-tb-ez-high-tack-adhesive-for-performance-fabrics/

Interesting, though it seems counterintuitive that a product with greater stick would not fill up with fleece lint just as fast if not faster than their regular stuff.
I'm a'goin' to git some to try!

[Tekmar]

Hi All,  Simon here from TEKMAR.  I just returned from FESPA and wanted to give you an update on the adhesives we manufacture.  At the show, anyone printing with Water based Inks were scrambling to find an adhesive that wouldn't break down due to the water in the inks.  We became the go to company.  Virus, Magna Colours, M&R and Adelco were just a few.  TB10 and TBHV all perform brilliantly with both water based and plastisol inks.  On tees most people applied a good coat in the morning-some flashed it off others allowed it to air dry (took about 30 seconds).  They could then print all day-on the heavier runs (M&R) they did re-apply a couple of times.  The water and scrub pad would have worked also.

Our experience with fleece is this.  All fleece is different.  Some release more lint (fleece) than others.  It is trial and error based upon the parameters -How many colors-how much squeegee pressure-type of shirts etc.  The reason web adhesives were developed was to allow the adhesive to gain traction on the soft fleece.  We have found that a good smooth layer of our TB adhesives will provide superior holding to just about all others.  The advanced polymers we use have tremendous shear holding but limit the amount of fleece pull by the lower peel resistance.  Typically people get 1-4 pieces per application-as I mentioned surface can be cleaned with a damp scour pad.  The glue isn't water soluble once dried so it stays on the pallet until cleaned off (or paper is replaced if pallet peel is used-recommended!!)

Just a note-the difference between the TB10 and the TBHV is the viscosity and solid content- TB10 is primarily designed to be applied using one of our applicators the TB500 or TB1000 series.  The TB-HV is a direct apply formulated to be spread on the pallet with the supplied squeegee spreaders.  A little thicker but more viscous and easier to spread.  That's it for now-if anyone has questions feel free to ask.

[dirkdiggler]

TB10 here for years!  Best stuff, wouldn't trade it for anything.  Don't like the gun though, paint roller with a foam roller is how we like it.  Sometimes I can print for 2 or 3 days without refreshing it.  Sux on fleece though!  Unfortunately, spray adhesive will always work best.  For us anyway.

[Frog]

Our experience with fleece is this.  All fleece is different.  Some release more lint (fleece) than others.  It is trial and error based upon the parameters -How many colors-how much squeegee pressure-type of shirts etc.  The reason web adhesives were developed was to allow the adhesive to gain traction on the soft fleece.  We have found that a good smooth layer of our TB adhesives will provide superior holding to just about all others.  The advanced polymers we use have tremendous shear holding but limit the amount of fleece pull by the lower peel resistance.  Typically people get 1-4 pieces per application-as I mentioned surface can be cleaned with a damp scour pad.  The glue isn't water soluble once dried so it stays on the pallet until cleaned off (or paper is replaced if pallet peel is used-recommended!!)

Welcome Simon, btw, a happy HV user here.

Where does the EZ fit in in the fleece issue?

[Frog]

On this often recurring topic of holding down fleece, I will have to revisit this alternative to stickums.



They work like an angled, directional version of Velcro hook and loop type fasteners.
I have a set, and used to use them, had a little trouble, and packed them away. Seemed to me that they worked better with some brands than others.

[Tekmar]

Frog, TBEZ holds up well with the fleece-I wouldn't expect much of a performance difference between the TB10 and the EZ though.  EZ was developed to hold down the polyester performance fabrics.  These types of fabric contain a higher percentage of silicone and other adhesive hating chemicals.  The EZ is able to grab and hold these difficult fabrics.   EZ works equally well on Tee's but with fleece you will encounter the same lint/fuzz problems as all others.  As I wrote before, we do well with fleece but more frequent applications will be required