Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
Quote from: tpitman on September 04, 2011, 08:28:15 PMOne thing not mentioned here is having ShurLoc make panels from your bolt mesh. I picked up some Sefar mesh on eBay from a guy that was going out of business at a really good price. 156, 195, and 230. Sent the mesh to ShurLoc and they made up panels at about $7.00 each, regardless of mesh count. They also got more panels out of the mesh than I'd have gotten tearing and loading it myself. I won't say its a giveaway, but for me it was very cost effective. I applaud those who have gotten working with bolt mesh down to where they're getting max tension without tearing, but for myself, I've ripped as much out of a bolt than I get loaded successfully and tensioned up towards the high end of the specified tolerances. ShurLoc panels have never failed me, shy of bumping against a sharp corner. JMHO.Don’t forget that you can remove the panel and re- insert it (not necessarily with art on the mesh) and switch mesh willy-nilly as you need to per job.It could also let you postpone or eliminate the reclaiming.... keeping you on press longer.
One thing not mentioned here is having ShurLoc make panels from your bolt mesh. I picked up some Sefar mesh on eBay from a guy that was going out of business at a really good price. 156, 195, and 230. Sent the mesh to ShurLoc and they made up panels at about $7.00 each, regardless of mesh count. They also got more panels out of the mesh than I'd have gotten tearing and loading it myself. I won't say its a giveaway, but for me it was very cost effective. I applaud those who have gotten working with bolt mesh down to where they're getting max tension without tearing, but for myself, I've ripped as much out of a bolt than I get loaded successfully and tensioned up towards the high end of the specified tolerances. ShurLoc panels have never failed me, shy of bumping against a sharp corner. JMHO.
Quote from: DouglasGrigar on September 05, 2011, 05:10:18 AMQuote from: tpitman on September 04, 2011, 08:28:15 PMOne thing not mentioned here is having ShurLoc make panels from your bolt mesh. I picked up some Sefar mesh on eBay from a guy that was going out of business at a really good price. 156, 195, and 230. Sent the mesh to ShurLoc and they made up panels at about $7.00 each, regardless of mesh count. They also got more panels out of the mesh than I'd have gotten tearing and loading it myself. I won't say its a giveaway, but for me it was very cost effective. I applaud those who have gotten working with bolt mesh down to where they're getting max tension without tearing, but for myself, I've ripped as much out of a bolt than I get loaded successfully and tensioned up towards the high end of the specified tolerances. ShurLoc panels have never failed me, shy of bumping against a sharp corner. JMHO.Don’t forget that you can remove the panel and re- insert it (not necessarily with art on the mesh) and switch mesh willy-nilly as you need to per job.It could also let you postpone or eliminate the reclaiming.... keeping you on press longer.How can this feature save money. You have the labor time needed to remove and reinstall and get back up to correct tension. This also gives a greater chance of tearing the mesh. In our shop this would not work since everything is fast paced and we need screens ready to go.
Im trying to understand some posts I have read that make that claim.I will give a example and tell me where I am wrong.I am stetching 6 23 x 31 M3 frames. Im using 3 yards 230 yellow sefar mesh. I get 2 frames per yard.(62" wide mesh) I pay $26.00 per yard. I know Shurloc pays way less than that per yard with volume discount. I have a Newman air stretch table.I have $78.00 in mesh. The employee wage at $10.00 per hour. Lets say it took him a 2 hours to stretch 6 screens.(which would be insane because it doesnt take 2 hrs on a table to do this) I would be investing $78.00 plus $20.00 for a total of $98.00.The Shurloc website shows the same panels for $27.14 x 6 would give you $162.84. Lets say labor savings which seems to be the biggest claim,was 30 minutes for $5.00. Im being generous with that labor figure. Total $167.84$167.84 minus $98.00 is $69.84. Im spending almost $70.00 more after covering material and labor expense. The labor number of 2 hrs is also not even close for stretching 6 frames,so Im giving the panels the benefit of the dought.So what am I missing. Remember this is only for 6 frames. If we did the example for the 36 I have left to do the numbers would be staggering. Im also using $26.00 per yard mesh. When we buy the bolt the per yard price also drops,again making the gap widen more. If we purchase the cheaper Italian mesh from Sonny the numbers become ridiculous.In conclusion,I cant see how I save money using the panels.Island,I don't know..you are not looking at all the costs....you say the employee is 10 per hour, but once you add taxes, insurance ect you are more like 16/hr. then you have not taken into account the lost production of not having the screens in rotation. I am not saying that you are incorrect that shur-locs are not for your company but you still have to take into account ALL aspects of labor when figuring out costs for your screens.Sam
Quote from: islandtees on September 06, 2011, 08:00:10 AMQuote from: DouglasGrigar on September 05, 2011, 05:10:18 AMQuote from: tpitman on September 04, 2011, 08:28:15 PMOne thing not mentioned here is having ShurLoc make panels from your bolt mesh. I picked up some Sefar mesh on eBay from a guy that was going out of business at a really good price. 156, 195, and 230. Sent the mesh to ShurLoc and they made up panels at about $7.00 each, regardless of mesh count. They also got more panels out of the mesh than I'd have gotten tearing and loading it myself. I won't say its a giveaway, but for me it was very cost effective. I applaud those who have gotten working with bolt mesh down to where they're getting max tension without tearing, but for myself, I've ripped as much out of a bolt than I get loaded successfully and tensioned up towards the high end of the specified tolerances. ShurLoc panels have never failed me, shy of bumping against a sharp corner. JMHO.Dont forget that you can remove the panel and re- insert it (not necessarily with art on the mesh) and switch mesh willy-nilly as you need to per job.It could also let you postpone or eliminate the reclaiming.... keeping you on press longer.How can this feature save money. You have the labor time needed to remove and reinstall and get back up to correct tension. This also gives a greater chance of tearing the mesh. In our shop this would not work since everything is fast paced and we need screens ready to go.Small shop, will not work in all applications, idea is to eliminate or postpone constraints to bring actual production to the forefront. Some locations also have issues with reclaiming many do not understand. This also works best with the E-Z frames as tension is predetermined, and changing mesh takes less than 5 min, removal and install, The E-Z takes less time insertion and full tension than inserting mesh on a roller.
Quote from: DouglasGrigar on September 05, 2011, 05:10:18 AMQuote from: tpitman on September 04, 2011, 08:28:15 PMOne thing not mentioned here is having ShurLoc make panels from your bolt mesh. I picked up some Sefar mesh on eBay from a guy that was going out of business at a really good price. 156, 195, and 230. Sent the mesh to ShurLoc and they made up panels at about $7.00 each, regardless of mesh count. They also got more panels out of the mesh than I'd have gotten tearing and loading it myself. I won't say its a giveaway, but for me it was very cost effective. I applaud those who have gotten working with bolt mesh down to where they're getting max tension without tearing, but for myself, I've ripped as much out of a bolt than I get loaded successfully and tensioned up towards the high end of the specified tolerances. ShurLoc panels have never failed me, shy of bumping against a sharp corner. JMHO.Dont forget that you can remove the panel and re- insert it (not necessarily with art on the mesh) and switch mesh willy-nilly as you need to per job.It could also let you postpone or eliminate the reclaiming.... keeping you on press longer.How can this feature save money. You have the labor time needed to remove and reinstall and get back up to correct tension. This also gives a greater chance of tearing the mesh. In our shop this would not work since everything is fast paced and we need screens ready to go.
Quote from: tpitman on September 04, 2011, 08:28:15 PMOne thing not mentioned here is having ShurLoc make panels from your bolt mesh. I picked up some Sefar mesh on eBay from a guy that was going out of business at a really good price. 156, 195, and 230. Sent the mesh to ShurLoc and they made up panels at about $7.00 each, regardless of mesh count. They also got more panels out of the mesh than I'd have gotten tearing and loading it myself. I won't say its a giveaway, but for me it was very cost effective. I applaud those who have gotten working with bolt mesh down to where they're getting max tension without tearing, but for myself, I've ripped as much out of a bolt than I get loaded successfully and tensioned up towards the high end of the specified tolerances. ShurLoc panels have never failed me, shy of bumping against a sharp corner. JMHO.Dont forget that you can remove the panel and re- insert it (not necessarily with art on the mesh) and switch mesh willy-nilly as you need to per job.It could also let you postpone or eliminate the reclaiming.... keeping you on press longer.
My guy can do 6 frames a hr. He is very fast loading mesh,puts them on the machine and brings them right up. So no time is lost with not having screens for production. I was trying to give the panels the benifit of this discussion.
Quote from: Printficient on September 05, 2011, 07:46:21 PMOur 230 Dyed mesh is 10.50 per yard.If this mesh is Saati,I would save about $116.00 over the panels using my original figures. Please verify if this is Saati.
Our 230 Dyed mesh is 10.50 per yard.
You are not saving labor by purchasing panels, you are outsourcing it to shur-loc. The difference of the cost of the panels to bolt mesh/lock strips (over their usable life), per screen, is essentially the cost of that labor from shur-loc. You may find their labor cheaper than training/paying your employees to load from the bolt or perhaps its the other way around.
Doug's point, (I think?), is that in a pinch you can sub out mesh counts in your set of frames and while you lose that labor of loading, tensioning, taping, as well as the cost of the protective tape, you retain the work-hardened mesh and prevent the purchase of more frames. Probably a fairly rare scenario but could be handy.
One last note is that I've found panels to have an intangible benefit in that it just feels more efficient to grab one from the box and load it up. Like Alan, I can't escape the felling that there's other things I ought to be doing ...
Quote from: islandtees on September 06, 2011, 07:55:45 AMQuote from: Printficient on September 05, 2011, 07:46:21 PMOur 230 Dyed mesh is 10.50 per yard.If this mesh is Saati,I would save about $116.00 over the panels using my original figures. Please verify if this is Saati.It comes from the same weaver that Saati gets theirs. Xenon buys more mesh than anyone in the nation.
Quote from: Printficient on September 08, 2011, 06:36:14 PMQuote from: islandtees on September 06, 2011, 07:55:45 AMQuote from: Printficient on September 05, 2011, 07:46:21 PMOur 230 Dyed mesh is 10.50 per yard.If this mesh is Saati,I would save about $116.00 over the panels using my original figures. Please verify if this is Saati.It comes from the same weaver that Saati gets theirs. Xenon buys more mesh than anyone in the nation.Peter,We have 1.5 million in mesh at any one time. I know that we make screens in custom sizes for more industries than just ours. Brent Fisk, the owner has more knowledge than anyone I have met in mesh and how it is used and manufactured. The mesh we use is Italian and as I understand it is like the smart mesh Saati sells.Sonny: I always thought that Saati got thier screen printing and filtration mesh from Saati owned and run facilities. Are you saying that Xenon is buying thier mesh from Saati, or has Saati outsorced thier mesh production to another supplier? Also, when you state that Xenon buys more mesh than anyone in the nation, are you referring to all woven mesh, or only polyester mono-filament screen-printing mesh?
The Shurloc website shows the same panels for $27.14 x 6 would give you $162.84. Lets say labor savings which seems to be the biggest claim,was 30 minutes for $5.00. Im being generous with that labor figure. Total $167.84$167.84 minus $98.00 is $69.84. Im spending almost $70.00 more after covering material and labor expense. The labor number of 2 hrs is also not even close for stretching 6 frames,so Im giving the panels the benefit of the dought.So what am I missing. Remember this is only for 6 frames. If we did the example for the 36 I have left to do the numbers would be staggering. Im also using $26.00 per yard mesh. When we buy the bolt the per yard price also drops,again making the gap widen more. If we purchase the cheaper Italian mesh from Sonny the numbers become ridiculous.In conclusion,I cant see how I save money using the panels.