Author Topic: S Mesh Question  (Read 3484 times)

Offline ericheartsu

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S Mesh Question
« on: June 01, 2015, 10:33:40 AM »
What S Mesh are you all using for process prints? The 305s?

If so, how do you keep from tearing them right away! Every single time we stretch the 305, if they don't tear on the table, they are tearing even before it gets to the degreasing stage. and i'm talking LOW stretching like 20n.

Any advice?
Night Owls
Waterbased screen printing and promo products.
www.nightowlsprint.com 281.741.7285


Offline Screen Dan

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2015, 10:47:52 AM »
I'm assuming you are using roller frames...make sure you soften the corners as you bring it up to tension.  Soften, bring up a notch, check, soften again if necessary.

The mesh chart that I have (which might be out of date) shows their 310-S to max out at 25n/cm²...so 20 is on the middle of "medium" tension for that mesh, by my standards (chart claims low-but-acceptable at 16n/cm²).  We don't try to creep up beyond "good enough" until it's had plenty of time to relax or been on press at least once.  Then they stand up a bit better.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 11:12:30 AM by Screen Dan »

Offline mimosatexas

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2015, 11:00:24 AM »
My only experience with S mesh is the statics (which I love), but I honestly did not like the 300S.  I use standard 280 instead and it seems to print better and hold up better in my shop.  shrug.

Offline sqslabs

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2015, 11:39:45 AM »
300S was a bit too fragile for my liking, so although we use S-Mesh for everything else, we just run standard 305 for process prints.  Haven't tried the 280S, but would be interested to hear how they run in regards to ink control vs. a 305.
Brett
Squeegee Science
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Offline ABuffington

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2015, 01:37:38 PM »
Here are some tips on stretching high S mesh counts. 

1. Shurloc panels are the best bet to avoid popping the screen.  This is because the mesh never touches the channel, or the old burred plastic strips.  The mesh rests on the Shurloc plastic strip.

2. Newmans were designed for their very thick thread mesh.  The inside of the channel is very thin that mesh wraps around, sharper than a butter knife.  So any dents, or especially nicks on the inside channel will cut the fine threads.  Same with the plastic strip.  If it is burred, cracked or nicked, it will cut the threads.  Cut a few and it can pop the mesh.  So if you are not using Shurlocs you can do the following:  Do not use an old Newman with dents and nicks on the inside edge.  Secondly use som 600 wet and dry sand paper and smooth out the channels to get any nicks removed.  Sand the plastic capture strips the same way.  Here is the big tip:  Take a 1/2" piece of masking tape the length of the roller.  Place the tape so a little less than half is over the channel, and the other is smoothly adhered to the roller on the edge where the mesh will wrap around.  Then take a credit card and wrap it around the channel and adhere it to the underside of the channel.  This acts as a shock absorber and provides and softer edge that the mesh wears against.

3. The other way to preserve the mesh is drop the weft tension, the narrow direction of the frame by 1-2 newtons.  Registration is not affected.  Typically we have squeegees within 1 to 1.5 inches from the inside of the frame. This creates high momentary tension during the print stroke when they are too close.  Round off your squeegees on the end, polish them smooth so that they don't cut the mesh like a knife.

I recommend 330S and 350S over 310S.  All have 30 micron thread, so having more threads helps with strength.  More threads also allows higher tension.  Stretch to the midpoint of our tension guidelines, especially on Newmans. Take 225/40, tension is listed at 18-29 newtons.  Stretch to 22-24 for initial tensions.  At 28 you are at the breaking point of the mesh.  Workable tensions in the low to mid 20's works.  If you need higher tensions go to T mesh or thicker threads.  150/48 likes an intitial stretch of 22-24 newtons, a 160T can stretch to 30n, a 160HD to 35n.  The 150/48 has better opacity, the 160T or HD has good opacity and is a bit tougher, the S just has better print qualities.

Al
Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA  - Technical Support and Sales
www.murakamiscreen.com

Offline ericheartsu

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2015, 01:42:56 PM »
Here are some tips on stretching high S mesh counts. 

1. Shurloc panels are the best bet to avoid popping the screen.  This is because the mesh never touches the channel, or the old burred plastic strips.  The mesh rests on the Shurloc plastic strip.

2. Newmans were designed for their very thick thread mesh.  The inside of the channel is very thin that mesh wraps around, sharper than a butter knife.  So any dents, or especially nicks on the inside channel will cut the fine threads.  Same with the plastic strip.  If it is burred, cracked or nicked, it will cut the threads.  Cut a few and it can pop the mesh.  So if you are not using Shurlocs you can do the following:  Do not use an old Newman with dents and nicks on the inside edge.  Secondly use som 600 wet and dry sand paper and smooth out the channels to get any nicks removed.  Sand the plastic capture strips the same way.  Here is the big tip:  Take a 1/2" piece of masking tape the length of the roller.  Place the tape so a little less than half is over the channel, and the other is smoothly adhered to the roller on the edge where the mesh will wrap around.  Then take a credit card and wrap it around the channel and adhere it to the underside of the channel.  This acts as a shock absorber and provides and softer edge that the mesh wears against.

3. The other way to preserve the mesh is drop the weft tension, the narrow direction of the frame by 1-2 newtons.  Registration is not affected.  Typically we have squeegees within 1 to 1.5 inches from the inside of the frame. This creates high momentary tension during the print stroke when they are too close.  Round off your squeegees on the end, polish them smooth so that they don't cut the mesh like a knife.

I recommend 330S and 350S over 310S.  All have 30 micron thread, so having more threads helps with strength.  More threads also allows higher tension.  Stretch to the midpoint of our tension guidelines, especially on Newmans. Take 225/40, tension is listed at 18-29 newtons.  Stretch to 22-24 for initial tensions.  At 28 you are at the breaking point of the mesh.  Workable tensions in the low to mid 20's works.  If you need higher tensions go to T mesh or thicker threads.  150/48 likes an intitial stretch of 22-24 newtons, a 160T can stretch to 30n, a 160HD to 35n.  The 150/48 has better opacity, the 160T or HD has good opacity and is a bit tougher, the S just has better print qualities.

Al

These are awesome tips! thank you sooooo much!
Night Owls
Waterbased screen printing and promo products.
www.nightowlsprint.com 281.741.7285

Offline Admiral

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2015, 02:23:37 PM »
300S was a bit too fragile for my liking, so although we use S-Mesh for everything else, we just run standard 305 for process prints.  Haven't tried the 280S, but would be interested to hear how they run in regards to ink control vs. a 305.

This.

Plus this is what we used from the get go for process prints and the dot gain would change everything going to a new mesh around that range.  Would take testing to see what is best and why fix something that isn't broken.

We don't do a whole lot of process printing but we do get some very detailed prints here and there.

Offline Rockers

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2015, 07:08:45 PM »
Mainly 330S but we have as well some 305S in circulation.

Offline ZooCity

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 08:15:29 PM »
We have done 310s on the rollers in the past, in our early times using thin thread, and it failed a lot as did the 135s.  Well we don't get failure out of any of the 135s anymore so we're bringing back the 310s as I believe we can also maintain it. 

The 310s is very delicate but man, what a great mesh for process word, it holds most all the detail of the 330s but passes ink much more easily in my experience.  With care, some fantastic WB/DC sim pro work can be done with that mesh as it allows enough ink volume to penetrate the shirt.

We run S mesh of the bolt on M3 rollers and we don't get any abnormal failures.  The channels do have to be perfect.  That tip on using masking tape is really interesting.  Trouble is, it would degrade in the dip tank/reclaim process.

Offline DannyGruninger

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 09:16:26 PM »
We have done 310s on the rollers in the past, in our early times using thin thread, and it failed a lot as did the 135s.  Well we don't get failure out of any of the 135s anymore so we're bringing back the 310s as I believe we can also maintain it. 

The 310s is very delicate but man, what a great mesh for process word, it holds most all the detail of the 330s but passes ink much more easily in my experience.  With care, some fantastic WB/DC sim pro work can be done with that mesh as it allows enough ink volume to penetrate the shirt.

We run S mesh of the bolt on M3 rollers and we don't get any abnormal failures.  The channels do have to be perfect.  That tip on using masking tape is really interesting.  Trouble is, it would degrade in the dip tank/reclaim process.


I've been doing the masking tape(we use blue painters tape) on the channels for about 6 months now and no issues with reclaim, dip tank, etc...... Absolutely no issues whatsoever as I too was skeptical like you are but we have had zero issues. When I started doing that one extra step our s mesh on rollers has been so much more durable it's crazy. We rarely break a screen now and I'm guessing it's because the tape on the channel. I highly suggest doing that


Danny Gruninger
Denver Print House / Lakewood Colorado
https://www.instagram.com/denverprinthouse

Offline Orion

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 10:23:52 PM »
I'll also testify to the use of masking/painters tape for cushioning roller channels. Works for us. I have a couple of frames that I used the Polyken white solvresist tape. 2 inch wide splits nicely in to the require 4, 1/2 inch pieces... just rip it, no cutting required. As Buffington pointed out, make sure your locking strips are free of burrs, very important.
Dale Hoyal

Offline cbjamel

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 10:26:35 PM »
Danny, post a picture when you can. I think i know what you are doing.
Shane

Offline ABuffington

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2015, 11:13:19 AM »
OK Murakami Mesh users I have a favor to ask.  We are looking for samples for the upcoming ISS show in Texas in October.  If you would like to share some of your work we'd love to show it off.  Please add your company name to the shirt under the print, or we will attach a card to give you credit.  Thanks Pierre for the samples you brought to the ISS Long Beach.  Send to Murakami Screen - 745 Monterey Park Road, Monterey Park, CA 91754 Attn: Al


The masking tape trick works through reclaiming since the mesh has it pinned against the roller.  The other similar cushioning trick is to fold the excess mesh underneath the mesh to be tensioned and capture two layers of mesh in the channel.  That way the excess mesh rides on the channel edge as the shock absorber and the tensioned mesh is on top of it.  Of the two, masking tape works a little better, but I have seen both the tape technique and two layers of mesh used together for more protection.
Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA  - Technical Support and Sales
www.murakamiscreen.com

Offline LoneWolf2

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2015, 02:20:01 PM »
Is there a cutoff date to send you some samples? I've got a couple that I can ship out.

Offline ABuffington

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Re: S Mesh Question
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 12:04:40 PM »
Ok, I need any print samples by Sept 31st.  Either t-shirts or printed fabric tubes are fine.  We will mount those printed on fabric tubes  The ISS show in Dallas Fort Worth is Oct 15-17th.  Any and all styles of art and print.  Come on buy and talk shop.  Walt and I will be there. Look forward to meeting any board members. 

Al
Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA  - Technical Support and Sales
www.murakamiscreen.com