Author Topic: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?  (Read 3290 times)

Offline whitewater

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Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« on: April 27, 2015, 05:58:06 PM »
Iver looked all over and can not find one?  I see the list of colors but what is a yellow ochre?  exactly...I looked all over unions website and could not find a thing.

Any ideas?


Offline tonypep

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 06:34:38 AM »
Technically, yellow ochre is a silica based pigment and is a warm/brownish shade of yellow; although synthetics have been around for a while. Shades will vary however do not expect to make lemon yellows such as 102 or 109 with this product. Some confusion with the Pavonine/Union/Rutland acquisitions as to product offerings which might be the reason for a reason for unavailable swatch cards.

Offline whitewater

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 07:54:45 AM »
MAybe  i should stay away from the Union waterbase then.. ?  Thanks for the info..

Ill look into another brand for waterbase then.. We just use union plastisol so though may just keep the same.

Offline tonypep

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 08:10:36 AM »
Most WB/PC systems use a finite set of primary mixing PCs  that; assuming that company makes plastisols as well, will generally mirror that line as well. Helps with formulation. Pavonine and Vivitone are/were an exception. Pavonine consisted of almost double the amount of PCs which I rather preferred however I believe it became an issue for them. Indeed they definitely had a yellow ochre which was an excellent ingredient for Dallas Gold (sorry Dirk!)

Offline Underbase37

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 09:36:38 AM »
I have a Union/ Pavonine color card, in a PDF on my work PC, if you would like it hit me up with a IM.

Murphy37


Offline Frog

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 09:43:53 AM »
No help, but I just learned that pavonine means "resembling a peacock"
What a great name for a line of inks!
That rug really tied the room together, did it not?

Offline whitewater

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 10:10:09 AM »
thanks Murph, but i have decided on something else.


Offline Orion

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 10:42:46 AM »
No help, but I just learned that pavonine means "resembling a peacock"
What a great name for a line of inks!

I wonder if Labov came up with that name Pavonine. Anyhow, did some googling which led me back to TSPMB, so I logged in to read posts by rlabov. Interesting tidbit on discharge activator...#2.a.

Most all of the above is correct with some slight additions and modifications.
 1. Poly's will not work; shirt must be cotton and specified as dischargeable by the manufacturer.
 2. There are two types of activators:
 a. ZFS (Zinc Formaldehyde Sulfoxylate). Repeated tests have shown that there is no danger from the release of free Formaldehyde during the drying cycle, but sulfur products (SO2) etc. come off and the dryer should be well ventilated to the outside to get rid of these unpleasant odors.
 b. A non formaldehyde activator is available, but this is a "hazardous chemical" and must be handled very carefully during transportation and storage.


I thought the formaldehyde was the cause of the stink?

Also, Andy what was up with the empty chair in the empty room profile picture?
Dale Hoyal

Offline tonypep

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 11:09:53 AM »
Pavonine was developed by Charlie Leach and yes, there was a peacock on the front of the color card.

Offline Frog

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2015, 11:19:24 AM »


Also, Andy what was up with the empty chair in the empty room profile picture?

That's an easy one. That's the pic that went up after I left that place when it changed to a rather nasty ownership and I just couldn't take it any longer


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That rug really tied the room together, did it not?

Offline ZooCity

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Re: Union Ink Waterbase color swatch?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2015, 04:12:50 PM »
I thought the formaldehyde was the cause of the stink?

I've done and keep doing reading on this and Union's old white sheets are chock full of info, I learned a good bit from them.  Although they surely need an update by now, I especially like that they were contacting the EPA back then to confirm any regulations in place regarding the components. 

What you are smelling out the dryer is the by products of the ZFS activator doing it's thing with the water base ink base.  So yes, it's related to having the activator in there but you're not smelling the actual activator, just the stuff it breaks down into.   I suppose if the dryer was poorly ventilated or had really low air flow or power, (i.e., not suited for wb/dc inks) one might end up smelling some ZFS as it lingers around at low-mid temps waiting for cure to initiate for too long. 

So when ZFS cures it puts off something like carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and zinc oxides if I'm getting that all right.  All pretty obvious things to vent completely out of the shop, some irritants.  Other, in particular, zinc oxides are a hazard and can give you heavy metal fever if you are over exposed which is probably occupational safety concern #1 with this ink system.  I think it's pretty hard to get hit with metal fever but when you do it's a very bad deal.  There are TLVs in place for this but I'm not sure how one goes about measuring for it.  My approach has always been massive air exchange in addition to dryer ventilation.

My theory on the stank is it's gotta primarily be the sulfur dioxide right?  No idea what zinc oxide might smell like.  We've also notice that inks with an "off" ph reek like somebody was burning liquid poo when curing.  Last off, I think some pigments can add to the smell factor.

I can't be sure but I would guess that you would not measure very much formaldehyde in a shop running DC and curing with a properly vented dyer.  Especially if the ink mfg put a scavenger (which I'm pretty sure Union did) to eat up any remaining formaldehydes not converted to the other nasties during the curing process.