Thoughts on used embroidery machines for first timers

[Dochertyscott]

hey all,
We are outsourcing more and more embroidery work and thinking about getting in the game.
I'm starting to research new, used, single and multi head.
How old is too old?
I've narrowed it down to barudan or tajima,
Single head is as far as my budget stretches if buying new.
Is buying a good used multi head going to be better than a single head new... What are some of the biggest regrets when buying embroidery machines.
How old is too old if buying used.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Cheers,
Scott

[GraphicDisorder]

hey all,
We are outsourcing more and more embroidery work and thinking about getting in the game.
I'm starting to research new, used, single and multi head.
How old is too old?
I've narrowed it down to barudan or tajima,
Single head is as far as my budget stretches if buying new.
Is buying a good used multi head going to be better than a single head new... What are some of the biggest regrets when buying embroidery machines.
How old is too old if buying used.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Cheers,
Scott

Barudan and Tajima are 2 of the best if not the best brands, so good choice there. Some will argue differently but I would buy as large as a machine as you can in my opinion.  I know very few people who got into embroidery who didn't end up with multiple heads or machines pretty quick. Nothing wrong with a single head just do your maths.  Let's say you have a 15 minute file run time, you can do 4pcs a hour if your loading it exactly the second it stops and you have no thread breaks/stops. So can you justify your machine on 4pcs a hour?  Do you have someone to run it? Lets say you have 100pc job, at 4 pcs a hour and your working 8 hrs a day, that jobs going to take you 3 days+.  Lets say you make $5 per piece on that job. That's $20 a hour basically, minus the labor for someone to run it say that's $10 a hour at least.  So before thread cost, machine cost or any overhead you are only making $10 a hour with a single head on a job like that.  Just going with a 2 head at least you start to see how things get much better.  Now your paying that same $10 a hour in labor, but your putting out 8pcs per hour and the job is taking half the time.

Other ways to go are 2 x single heads, this only makes sense to ME if you are doing a lot of 1 of items/name drops. If you intend to do production or 50-100-500-1000pc jobs multihead is the way to go. Remember you can always use just 1 head of a multihead for a name drop or whatever and yes that seems like a waste of a head(s).  But when you have a single head you can't make that puppy go any faster than what 1 head can do.  With a multihead you can just run the other heads for your production stuff and you will be doing long run jobs so much faster.

I didn't make any money I would say until I got our 2 head (which took us to 3 total heads). But it took us years of running those 3 heads 2008 to 2011 to be able to afford to add a 4 head. Interestingly once we added our first 4 head we saw real throughput and added another 4 head just 4 months later. Added a 6 head to the mix about a year from that point and another 6 head just over a year from that point. If I started over today, id swing for a 4 head at least. Sure you may not have enough business on day one to keep that 4 head saturated, but if you can do quality embroidery they will come and you will be using it fully in no time. 

Don't forget other costs like quality digitizing software, decent computer to run it, some specialized hoops you may need as well.

My biggest regrets is buying a single head really. Secondary regret would be not going with Barudan from the get go.  I have a few SWF machines and while we turn out quality work with them it is more effort/time to do so. We can sew faster and better on the Barudans by a good margin.  Everyone just looks at stitch speed and assumes the machines all take the same amount of time embroidering something since they run around the same speed.  This couldn't be more wrong.  A file we can run at 1000rpm on the Barudan might only be OK at 750-800 on the SWF's and the SWF will still stop more often for thread breaks even at that speed. Now I did build my embroidery department on the back of SWF and I can't fault them there, but better is better and that's just the bottom line.

Age, personally I wouldn't buy a machine over 10 years old unless you know its history well.  Even then id try to stay 10 yrs older or newer.  Parts on older machines get hard to get. I bought 2 of our 4 heads used.  One was like brand new, the other was rode hard and put away wet and we had to fix on it a good bit to get it running like it does now. 

[ScreenPrinter123]

In 2011 we were in a similar situation except we were more concerned with turnaround time than keeping all of the profit in house, though we were of course concerned with that as well.  We to this day have never sold embroidery but just offered to current screen customers to make things easy for them as we make more screen printing and would rather focus on that.

We were in the used market for a 6 head and wanted Barudan but they are hard to find unless you can wait for a long time or get lucky.  We ended up with a 2006 Tajima (at the time in 2011 it was from what we understand essentially the same mechanically as the newest machines).  We are in New Orleans and picked up the machine in Dallas after first paying a tech to look it over before closing the deal.  It has been a great machine and even though we barely run it has already paid for itself and made money with us only using it for current customers who ask and never pushing it.  Though different than printing and scary at first it really is not that difficult as long as you are take care of the machine and stay on top of thread tension.

[Dochertyscott]

Thanks guys,
So I have further info on this barudan machine which is for sale.
I was given the info from the barudan rep here in NZ
He has assured me that it is in great condition, nothing wrong with it.
We'll serviced and a good buy. Here is the info on the machine.
BENYME-ZQ-A06 520 mm head spacing 350 mm high .
This machine has the American Advantage cap frame system and is a drop table model with free arm hoops for finished goods and caps.
6 x cap frame driver
12 cap frames
12 size 12 round finished goods frames
12 size 18 round finished goods frames
12 290x300 ..almost square..F G Frames
Instruction book parts book and some Barudan tools and spare parts yet to be sorted
Dimensions..L..4750mm   W..1300mm  H..1800mm Weight aprox 1100kg.

Does anyone have this machine or had one of this age and still running it with good results?
Interested to hear thoughts.
Machine is going for 12-15k NZ dollars which is in my budget.

Thanks in advance.

[Dochertyscott]

Photo

[LuckyFlyinROUSH]

You really can't go wrong with a flat faced bauradan or tajima. Stay away from the round designs.

If you can get one with an LCD screen. Absolutely solves headaches down the road, a nd the learning curve is much easier. We have a 2004 Tajima with LCD, I think that is the earliest they made them.

They run like tanks. Try to get it for 12k or less. For instance a brand new Tajima 6 head is 60k. So take that in from today's date to the date they bought it it has been running for 40 hrs a week.

Possibly pay a tech to take a head apart and make sure its all good and tight. Gets expensive to get in there and start replacing worn items that weren't oiled properly.

[Dochertyscott]

And is the embroidery quality gonna be up to scratch? Speed comparable?
In other words will I be able to compete with such machine?

[mk162]

i've heard the turret style machines aren't bad, it's just finding somebody to work on them...

that is a similar controller they are shipping on them now.

Get a tech to look at it, that should be a great buy.  Barudans and Tajimas are built well and you should have no problem sewing for a long time on it if it was well cared for.

[GraphicDisorder]

Echoing the others, just make sure a tech looks at it, a couple hundred bucks or so to know your buying a good machine is great insurance.  The older the machine the more important it becomes.

I bought a 2007 and a 2009 used 4 heads, you'd think they have to be in similar shape, they were a world apart when we got them.  They are good now but it took a good tech tuning them up!

Older the machine the more important parts will be as well, so you need to consider that as well. Tech should know this and be able to guide you.  If they tell you to run, do so.

[Dochertyscott]

Thanks,
The guy selling it is the only barudan rep/seller for NZ,
He (as far as I'm aware) is also the only tech for barudan in the country.
He has assured me it has been well maintained and in great order.
Should I ask for him to pull a head apart to further inspect?
I'm going to fly up to see machine in operation, and he has said (if I want it) he will teach me how to use and maintain it while I'm up there.
I know only what I have learnt in the last month about embroider,
Any advice on what I should look for in order to determine if it's a goody while I'm up there?

[Dochertyscott]

Further to the above... With this year of machine, will quality of stitch and speed still be ok?

[LuckyFlyinROUSH]

I would see a sew out run on all four heads at the same time, and pay your own tech to see it, have him see if its timed correctly, centered correctly, and tensioned corectly. I would run a complicated design and you can watch to see if the tread breaks frequently, doesn't trim, or it doesn't run smoothly. If it does it won't have any problem keeping up with new machines.