diving into waterbase

[cleveprint]

whats happening everyone. i really want to start diving into some waterbase printing here. we have been exclusively plastisol forever, so i would be essentially starting from scratch. i was wondering if anyone has some good info on where to even start. brands of inks to try, emulsions, tips, tricks, maybe a link to another thread with someone asking the same question as i am and im just being too lazy to search

starting all of my research now and figured this is a great place to start. i know im offering a pretty broad topic, but i figured it cant hurt to ask. thanks!

[Orion]

Brand of ink- we favor CCI
Emulsion- we favor Murakami SP 1400
Tips- Murakami Smartmesh, larger mesh openings decrease the chance of dry in.
There is so much more to add but it seems your laziness is contagious and... I hate to type.
         

[mimosatexas]

I agree with Orion for the most part.

I prefer using CCI D-White more than any other discharge white.  I still like the matsui brite base for discharge colors and the matsui pigments, but I really haven't tried out many other brands enough to say I like one more than the other.  I did TONS of testing on most of the different white options (CCI, matsui, sericol, magna, etc.) before settling on CCI.  Another shop in my area that does 99% waterbased prefers using sericol for everything but discharge white, and they also use the CCI D-White.

I like SP1400 a lot, though it takes a long time to expose.  Holds fantastic detail and basically doesnt ever break down.  Some other popular ones I know shops are using with success are the WR-14 and WR-25.

The S-mesh is so good for waterbased I would almost call it essential, especially if you are just starting out.  Dry-in tends to be the biggest frustration when starting out, since literally any down time while ink is in the screen will start to affect your print.  While you're testing stuff or adjusting registration, your ink is thickening and tiny details are hardening in your screen.  Humidity, additives, spritzing with water, etc all help, but it will still happen and it is annoying as hell when it does.

Other things to remember, curing is longer and full curing is absolutely crucial, especially with discharge.  Discharging different brands/styles/colors is always a bit of a gamble due to re-dyes and certain dyes/blends just not playing nice.  Testing is always crucial to success, but you will eventually get burned on something.

The results are awesome though and worth it in my opinion.  Nothing like having an enormous, bright, full color field on a shirt that is perfectly soft and breathable.

[cleveprint]

thanks for the responses. i know its a really broad topic im asking about. i know i want to start very slowly. probably some dark ink jobs on light garments. try to hold off on the discharge until i get comfortable.

i guess my biggest concern is screens holding up. the few times i played around with D-White, it really ate my screens up. we use aquasol hvp and i had even put hardener on it. i know exposure is an issue there, but im assuming the discharge will eat your screens up more than say a regular black waterbase will. but then again, i have no clue either!!

im def not looking to go full on waterbase yet. just want something to add to our arsenal.

[TCT]

The SP-1400 is the way to go. It eliminates so many headaches.

A thought on pigments, we have found that Matsui pigments seem to be the most heavily concentrated. While that is nice sometimes, when mixing small amounts, 1 drop too many and your color is pretty far off...

Get yourself a GOOD(you ain't slanging dime bags anyone) digital scale that measures 0.01g.


For what it is worth, I think the "easiest" and must user friendly option out there is CCI. Their mixing software seemed to be rather accurate. They are also a US company so they don't have ridiculous names for things like Matsui and Magna have. Small detail, but it can be frustrating trying to wrap your head around weird names when you are already trying to learn something foreign...

[Doug S]

I'd really love to get into wb also but I'm afraid the mini sprint might struggle a bit but not sure.

[ericheartsu]

I'd really love to get into wb also but I'm afraid the mini sprint might struggle a bit but not sure.

we have a mini sprint with an extra drone, and we really don't have any issues.

we run most waterbase through around 340/350, usually around 6-8.

[Onewithpez]

I am also starting my research into this, but I am looking farther out since I would also need a larger dryer. 
What seems to get better results? DC UB or dying the DC?
For the CCI system I believe it is the same pigments for bot right? Does anyone have a system that you use the same base and just add the DC agent in darks?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mimosatexas]

None work that way that I know of...

Shared pigments seem to be pretty standard, but the bases are inherently different.  Even unactivated discharge will lighten a bit and "discharge" if printed on a dark shirt.  It will just look like faded crap instead of the color you are trying to hit.

[cleveprint]

seems like i need to start ordering in some stuff and start playing around. maybe see if cci has a sample pack or something. thanks for the tips so far though.

[TCT]

CCI does(or did) have a "starter kit" all the pigments and a gallon of base I believe. From memory, they were the most economical for their starter kits also...

[Doug S]

I'd really love to get into wb also but I'm afraid the mini sprint might struggle a bit but not sure.

we have a mini sprint with an extra drone, and we really don't have any issues.

we run most waterbase through around 340/350, usually around 6-8.

I guess I would run it at the same time and temp for discharge.  Usually 340 at 4

[Homer]

CCI is good stuff, we use D base and D white, but for me, the absolute easiest dummy proof stuff is Sericol. Open the bucket, dump on the screen, print. want to discharge, just add some agent. They are all RFU inks, real easy to use. take a look here:

http://www.atlasscreensupply.com/texcharge_discharge_ink.htm

their is a formula guide for mixing pms colors, we use it once in a while. most of the time we eyeball it and write down the weights.

best thing you can do - write.down.everything. get a huge binder and keep track of everything from squeegie duro to ink mixing formulas, air temp, time of year, location of the moon, mesh, shop mood....

and for God sakes, get a scale......

[sqslabs]

CCI does(or did) have a "starter kit" all the pigments and a gallon of base I believe. From memory, they were the most economical for their starter kits also...

Anthem carries it:

http://www.anthemprintingsf.com/Color-Mixing-System-CMS-Starter-Kit-w-Waterbase-p/cmswaterbasekit.htm

[diavale]

we have had decent luck with rutland wb-99. but looking at the price difference I think we maybe experimenting with some new lines.