Charging for my R&D?

[whitewater]

So I printed on some stained glass. 3 color job. Since I never did it before I took it as a challenge. There was a little trial and error but the folks at nazdar were helpful (after ordering a couple thing) and a sign guy and flat stock printer down the street gave a pointer.

So I got paid for doing this, but the customer is planning big things for the print on glass. I can only feasibly only do a certain amount per hour. If they do the numbers they think they will do then I would not be able to keep up.

They may never do those numbers but am preparing in case.

The customer wants is lining up 2 more printers to print and they want me to show them how I do it..

I don't really feel comfortable doing that. Even though I got paid for what I really don't want to share what I did with a competitor.
The customer came to me because no one else would try this printing in this area. Just like the mylar, no one else would even attempt it, I did and made some dough.

So how would I go about charging for this? Do I take what I make at my shop and multiply that by, what 2 hours?..

I'm torn, because if I could keep up with it then I would say NO, but since I know that I couldn't then I shouldn't hold them back, OR just tell them to have the other printers do their own r&d?

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Frog]

If you really have something to pass on, don't sell yourself short. Consultants make more than printers.

[Screened Gear]

Don't do it. Your customer wants you to make competition for yourself. Tell your customer you can produce what they need. As soon as you teach others then they will start the bidding war.

It's questionable business motives.

[Fresh Baked Printing]

Knowledge is money. The flat stock printer gave you a tip for free so I'm not sure when knowledge becomes yours to keep. I suppose it becomes "yours" when you say it is and saying it is now "yours" is totally appropriate, considering the customer wants to in essence, tell you how to run your business by what knowledge you will share.
If you're able to figure out a challenging print job, why couldn't you figure out a way to accommodate the possible increased work? You could contract it out to a printer who you know, trust and could have an agreement with, gentlemen's agreement, or otherwise.

The knowledge shared on this forum has value too but unlike your situation, we aren't being forced to share it to win business.

[mooseman]

mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival  NEVER      NEVER      NEVER      TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!

[Denis Kolar]

mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival  NEVER      NEVER      NEVER      TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!

Aren't we all a "COMPETITION"? In different states and cities, but with internet, who knows where people can order from.

I guess, Pierre was wrong with helping me to get on my feet when I got my equipment (other side of town). I guess I'm wrong with helping Streeter (printhouse) with art files (about 40 miles south).
Whitewater's case might be a bit different, but the forum is essentially a place where you help your competition, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly when your next door printer reads your comments and learns from it.

[Fresh Baked Printing]

mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival  NEVER      NEVER      NEVER      TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!

Aren't we all a "COMPETITION"? In different states and cities, but with internet, who knows where people can order from.

I guess, Pierre was wrong with helping me to get on my feet when I got my equipment (other side of town). I guess I'm wrong with helping Streeter (printhouse) with art files (about 40 miles south).
Whitewater's case might be a bit different, but the forum is essentially a place where you help your competition, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly when your next door printer reads your comments and learns from it.

I touched on this in a quote from my previous post: "The knowledge shared on this forum has value too but unlike your situation, we aren't being forced to share it to win business."

[tpitman]

Exactly. Who's to say that the other shops won't simply take the whole job now that someone has done the legwork. Apparently they were too lazy to be bothered before. It's a bit like doing art on spec, then the customer or lowball printer asking for the art.

[Homer]

that's not fair for your customer to ask YOU to train competition. It's like Papa Johns giving away their sauce recipe -sure anyone can make it, but it will take a whole lot of work to figure it out. . . . .  Why can't you do the job? If you can only do so many per hour, either change how you do it - or charge accordingly. . .is this something that can go on  an auto

[Donnie]

A situation for sure. I honestly don't think I could bring myself to do what he ask.

 I often wonder if we would be calling each other SOBs if all of our shops were in the same general area.

[Clark]

YEs, you should charge for your R&D.  Years ago I was asked to figure out how to print on Frogg Togg type material.  It paid really well, then production was sent overseas, but it was understood from the get go that is how it was going to be.

The first time I did some R&D was when Adidas first started with their stretch under armour type volleyball jerseys.  I figured out how to print on it really well, and someone from Adidas called me to ask me how to do it because one of their large printers was having issues.  A few weeks later every box that came in with those Adidas jerseys had the printing instructions I gave them, and my contact started using another cheaper printer.  I felt really dumb for giving those instructions...I could have at least charged them for it or kept the contract a little while longer.  Live and learn..and I learned to charge for R&D from that point forward.

[mooseman]

mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival  NEVER      NEVER      NEVER      TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!

Aren't we all a "COMPETITION"? In different states and cities, but with internet, who knows where people can order from.

I guess, Pierre was wrong with helping me to get on my feet when I got my equipment (other side of town). I guess I'm wrong with helping Streeter (printhouse) with art files (about 40 miles south).
Whitewater's case might be a bit different, but the forum is essentially a place where you help your competition, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly when your next door printer reads your comments and learns from it.

I touched on this in a quote from my previous post: "The knowledge shared on this forum has value too but unlike your situation, we aren't being forced to share it to win business."

Dennis You might have missed my point, it is not about not helping, it is about not cutting your own throat, we Sicilians are funny like that.
mooseman

[Denis Kolar]

Moose LOL
I did not miss your point, but you have to look at it this way too. We are competition.
On the boards, I'm willing to help a fellow printer, but in Whitewater's case, that is different.

I might have sounded a bit different than I wanted, but all I wanted to say that in the principle, we are all competition and we are still helping each other.
Which is great.

[ebscreen]

How large are the pieces/print area? I bet you could do it.
Anything not really small is going to load/unload really slow (comparatively)
even with an auto. Can't exactly toss glass around...

[Screened Gear]

There is one main difference about helping on this board and helping someone your client wants you to train. On here we are helping people with their own jobs we don’t know the clients and don’t have any way of getting the job. Whitewater is training competition and the client knows who they are.  I said this once before, the client is asking you to teach more people so they can have options to get their work done. (bidding war) Most likely they will never print more then you can handle. This sounds like one of those clients’ that thinks they will make millions on this and want to make sure you are ready to handle the work before they even sell a hundred.

I am yet to have a client tell me they will be printing thousands of shirts then end up printing thousands. The clients that print thousands of shirts never say they are a big customer and will bring you tons of work.