Bright Tiger is fading on 50/50 navy :/

[sportsshoppe]

Eagle ball jerseys are fading awful using Bright Tiger. Some of the moisture wicken are also... Everything else looks good, anyone else here use Bright Tiger and have you had bad or good thoughts on it. Thanks

[mooseman]

we have been using it from day one never had any issues even with a couple of running formula changes from Wilflex.
mooseman

[Frog]

Eagle ball jerseys are fading awful using Bright Tiger. Some of the moisture wicken are also... Everything else looks good, anyone else here use Bright Tiger and have you had bad or good thoughts on it. Thanks

By fading, do you mean the white is getting translucent, like dye migration turning it blueish?

[sportsshoppe]

Yes Frog, dye migration... We have just started using it again in the last few months and we do bunches of ball jerseys and some of them are 2 button Eagle brand 50/50. We have noticed that after a couple of days sitting on the table that the white is now almost a light blue on the navy and even some of the red is fading or migrating. We have been doing team uniforms for years and this is the only time we have noticed it and with other inks but not the Eagle brand, they usually do well. I am using a Inline numbering system so its a low mesh screen and I am putting 2 solid coats on them. I did notice my printer had slowed down the belt on the dryer and wondered if over curing the ink could cause this. Not sure but I do have to do further investigation, I cannot have this problem and need to nip it in the bud! Thanks for any advice

[Frog]

Yes Frog, dye migration... We have just started using it again in the last few months and we do bunches of ball jerseys and some of them are 2 button Eagle brand 50/50. We have noticed that after a couple of days sitting on the table that the white is now almost a light blue on the navy and even some of the red is fading or migrating. We have been doing team uniforms for years and this is the only time we have noticed it and with other inks but not the Eagle brand, they usually do well. I am using a Inline numbering system so its a low mesh screen and I am putting 2 solid coats on them. I did notice my printer had slowed down the belt on the dryer and wondered if over curing the ink could cause this. Not sure but I do have to do further investigation, I cannot have this problem and need to nip it in the bud! Thanks for any advice

This, more than likely

[alan802]

I wouldn't use a traditional low-bleed white ink for garments that bleed bad, I'd go with a full on poly ink.  Some of the worst bleeders I've ever seen were of the 50/50 combo and I've put my trust in many low-bleed whites like the bright tiger and union diamond white with bad results but when I use a poly white ink I don't leave anything to chance, nothing bleeds and I can sleep well at night.

[sportsshoppe]

Alan may I ask what brand Poly you use and is it printable on 100% cotton as well?

[Orion]

Alan may I ask what brand Poly you use and is it printable on 100% cotton as well?

This, from Union Ink...

·         I can get by with one white ink for all my cotton and cotton/poly blends!

While this is not totally a myth, there are certainly good arguments that should make every printer think twice about making a single white ink work for both 100 percent cotton and cotton/polyester blends.

I visit plants routinely that are trying to use the same white ink on every substrate. Ordinarily, this single ink will be a high-opacity, low-bleed formulation they’ve tested and found to work well on their worst-bleeding fabrics. After all, if the gun works on an elephant it should work on a rabbit, right? Wrong!  Ink manufacturers understand fully that printers want to simplify the process. Hey, if they only had one white ink, they’d never grab the bucket formulated for 100 percent cotton and mistakenly print it on a 50/50 garment resulting in a bleeding print and rejection by the customer. However, what printers sometimes fail to appreciate is that ink makers put dye-blocking agents in low-bleed inks to minimize the migration of fugitive textile dyes from polyester-blended garments. However, some textile dyes found in 100 percent cotton garments can come into contact with the blocking agents, and “ghost” images can appear at the point of contact resulting in rejection by the customer. 

[Frog]

Alan may I ask what brand Poly you use and is it printable on 100% cotton as well?

This, from Union Ink...

·         I can get by with one white ink for all my cotton and cotton/poly blends!

While this is not totally a myth, there are certainly good arguments that should make every printer think twice about making a single white ink work for both 100 percent cotton and cotton/polyester blends.

I visit plants routinely that are trying to use the same white ink on every substrate. Ordinarily, this single ink will be a high-opacity, low-bleed formulation they’ve tested and found to work well on their worst-bleeding fabrics. After all, if the gun works on an elephant it should work on a rabbit, right? Wrong!  Ink manufacturers understand fully that printers want to simplify the process. Hey, if they only had one white ink, they’d never grab the bucket formulated for 100 percent cotton and mistakenly print it on a 50/50 garment resulting in a bleeding print and rejection by the customer. However, what printers sometimes fail to appreciate is that ink makers put dye-blocking agents in low-bleed inks to minimize the migration of fugitive textile dyes from polyester-blended garments. However, some textile dyes found in 100 percent cotton garments can come into contact with the blocking agents, and “ghost” images can appear at the point of contact resulting in rejection by the customer. 

Though obvious to many, it should be pointed out that stacking hot right out of the dryer increases this possibility. The other argument against the single white ink is that low bleeds and poly-specific inks are often costlier.

[alan802]

Alan may I ask what brand Poly you use and is it printable on 100% cotton as well?

We use One Stroke Production white.  We typically don't use it on cotton simply from a cost standpoint but have used it on jobs that had poly shirts along with cotton in the order with no ill effects.  I have personally never seen poly ink ghosting on cotton shirts but I believe when others say it's possible.  I think with todays inks, it's probably very unlikely to ever happen but I'd wait to hear from an expert on that subject. 

Bright Tiger was the first white ink I ever used and we used it for the first few years we were running, but I know it's not the same as it used to be formula wise.  Over the years we have not used many Wilflex white inks for various reasons but if you're a Wilflex man I am more than positive they have something comparable to the One Stroke, and who knows, they might have something better. 

[Rob Coleman]

Alan may I ask what brand Poly you use and is it printable on 100% cotton as well?

This, from Union Ink...

·         I can get by with one white ink for all my cotton and cotton/poly blends!

While this is not totally a myth, there are certainly good arguments that should make every printer think twice about making a single white ink work for both 100 percent cotton and cotton/polyester blends.

I visit plants routinely that are trying to use the same white ink on every substrate. Ordinarily, this single ink will be a high-opacity, low-bleed formulation they’ve tested and found to work well on their worst-bleeding fabrics. After all, if the gun works on an elephant it should work on a rabbit, right? Wrong!  Ink manufacturers understand fully that printers want to simplify the process. Hey, if they only had one white ink, they’d never grab the bucket formulated for 100 percent cotton and mistakenly print it on a 50/50 garment resulting in a bleeding print and rejection by the customer. However, what printers sometimes fail to appreciate is that ink makers put dye-blocking agents in low-bleed inks to minimize the migration of fugitive textile dyes from polyester-blended garments. However, some textile dyes found in 100 percent cotton garments can come into contact with the blocking agents, and “ghost” images can appear at the point of contact resulting in rejection by the customer. 

Though obvious to many, it should be pointed out that stacking hot right out of the dryer increases this possibility. The other argument against the single white ink is that low bleeds and poly-specific inks are often costlier.

In order for the ghosting phenomenon to occur, you need four criteria:  a BR ink which uses expansion agent (most manufacturers these days), the suspect dye to be present in the shirt (which is primarily a yellow used in earth tone and pastel shades), heat, and moisture (ie humidity).  I have seen this numerous times.  This is why you don't stack hot.  Fortunately there is a simple test to determine if an ink and substrate will react this way.

Another reason not to use a full on ploy ink on cottons besides price is hand feel. 

[sportsshoppe]

Rob can you share with us the simple test your speaking of?

[Rob Coleman]

Rob can you share with us the simple test your speaking of?

Sure thing.  You need a heat press.

Print your white ink onto the suspect fabric and cure as normal.
Cover the white print area with another piece of the fabric (or fold over).
Lightly mist the fabric with water.
Place in the transfer press at 200F with minimal pressure - maybe 5psi.
Close the transfer press and wait for a few hours.  Bad fabrics will discolor (ghost image) in less than 30 minutes.

[sportsshoppe]

Rob funny you should say that because if you read my first post it was on 2 button ball jerseys that after numbering were sent to the name department and the names pressed on at I think 320 (not sure), that's when the fading began. While they were waiting to have names placed on them they looked fine. I guess the excess heat and pressure used to place names on them may have enhanced the bleeding. Thanks for the input