Ink mix system for Poly garment or mixed garments

[cbjamel]

I am using union mixo system now but when we do mixed or poly based they don't work as well with out base of white. What is out here or can you use say diamond white in its place.

Thanks,
Shane

[ZooCity]

The only mix system I know of for poly inks is the wilflex pc system with either performance or top score base.  You are trying to use an rfu system into a poly base?  I wouldn't recommend that.

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[Ross_S]

Wilflex equalizer system is the way to go.  You need there Top Score bse then you can make pantones or create stock colors in the amount you need versus buying gallons or quarts at ridiculous prices

[Colin]

If I remember correctly,  You can only add the Wilflex pigments to the Top Score base.  The resins used in the equalizers are not the same as what's used in the Top Score base so cure times will not be the same and the bleed resistance will not be the same either.  The plasticizer used does not have an impact on cure times and temps (it can have an impact on bleed - but I do not know what they are using).

Rutland has a new low cure bleed resistance base on the market.  It is to be used with their C3 system.  I used it on a couple jobs, and in the future I would only use it when printing over a white base plate - my personal results - yours may vary.  The cure temps climb the more pigment is added.  Anywhere from 280-300 depending on pigment load.  This is directly related to the resins not being the same = different cure times.

And yea, the price for Top Score is kinda nuts.....

[Ross_S]

The cure temp for top score base and equalizer pigments is 270 or 280.  We use it all the time and it works really well.  I have heard in the past about those problems but I have not seen it.

[ZooCity]

At the time we switched to wilflex I was told that only the PCs were officially OK to mix into Performance base.  It's one of the big reasons we went with the PC system over Equalizers.  Top Score wasn't out yet (I personally find it inferior to Performance, I think it was made to be cheaper and easier to use for those with short dryer outfeeds, i.e., less tack).  I'm sure you could mix equalizers into Top Score base or anything else for that matter but it may not be supported in the IMS which would be a drag. 

[pwalsh]

If I remember correctly,  You can only add the Wilflex pigments to the Top Score base.  The resins used in the equalizers are not the same as what's used in the Top Score base so cure times will not be the same and the bleed resistance will not be the same either.  The plasticizer used does not have an impact on cure times and temps (it can have an impact on bleed - but I do not know what they are using).

Rutland has a new low cure bleed resistance base on the market.  It is to be used with their C3 system.  I used it on a couple jobs, and in the future I would only use it when printing over a white base plate - my personal results - yours may vary.  The cure temps climb the more pigment is added.  Anywhere from 280-300 depending on pigment load.  This is directly related to the resins not being the same = different cure times.

And yea, the price for Top Score is kinda nuts.....

Colin:  Your memory is as usual spot on!  When the Wilflex Top Score base was launched the good folks at PolyOne Wilflex cautioned that maximum bleed resistance could only be achieved when using thier Pigment Concentrates (PC's).  They have since conducted extensive testing using thier Equalizer pigments and have qualified this system for printing on polyester performance garments. 

[mimosatexas]

I'm in the market for a mixing system and have been trying to decide between all the options and brands.  I love the idea of pigment+base, but the ease of use of the MX type systems.  I have used both (matsui is pigment+base, while I have a plastisol MX system).  I am leaning more toward the PC type because I can use the fashion base without sacrificing opacity with thinner ink deposits due to pigment loading etc.

My questions is, what is the benefit of the PC system over the equalizer system if both "work" with something like top score. and definitely work with fashion base etc.  It seems like a no brainer to go with the equalizer system as it is phalate free and comparative pigments simply cost less by volume.  For someone who would use something like top score rarely, would there be a benefit to the PC vs EQ?

[Colin]

I talked with Steve Hedge at Wilflex this morning about this very question.

He stated that cure temps DO GO UP if you exceed 25% Equilizer by weight.  Plan on cure temps being at 300 or higher depending on your pigment load.

Otherwise, they state cure temps for ALL Top Score products are right at 290 Degrees.

That statement alone would make me want to go with pigments.

[GaryG]

People who listen, listen to Steve Hedge. Good man, wealth of knowledge!
Yessiree! 

[ZooCity]

+1 for Steve Hedge.  Our rep Jerry Hall has always been great too.

May favorite part about Wilflex though?  We don't need to contact them very often at all, the ink just works for the most part and is straightforward.

[Binkspot]

We run the Epic PC system and very happy with it. Easy to use, colors dead nuts on, convienet and when you plug in the numbers it's cost effective. I think four years now and had to contact Wilflex maybe 4 times because we were having trouble with a formula and they were always fast with a solution.  We have not used the Top Score base yet but never had any issues with the Epic poly base.

[mimosatexas]

Lets assume the cure temp is a non issue, say if we just never use the top score base.  What other benefit, if any, would there be to using the PC over the EQ system?

[ebscreen]

Complete control over pigment load. Costs are same or less.

[ZooCity]

PCs give you ultimate control, like ebscreen says.  With a system like this you can turn your ink area into a little ink factory.  Being able to mix a little cup of a weird PMS color in Performance ink is just one enormous advantage for us.

Cost is significantly better than buying premix ink provided you are efficient at mixing. 

It's also less shelf space than anything else.  We have to fight hard to keep our plasti inventory from getting out of hand here.  Gallons of PC represent a lot of mixed ink v an RFU system.

For a downside I would say it's a bit more complicated than a RFU mix system or equalizers and there is a risk that you could incorrectly mix an ink but if you use the IMS it literally flashes a stop sign icon with a hand in the middle if you go out of balance.