Switch to Roller Frames?

[Denis Kolar]

I had to make same decision bout 2 years ago. Could not get statics with a decent tension.
Went with used Newmans and Shur-loc panels. Built a stretching table and never looked back.

Love it. it is much nicer and easier to print right now.

[Underbase37]

14 years of M3 use here, for the last 4 I switched to S mesh Statics, doubt I would ever go back to rollers.  However, if you retension and stay on top of rollers they probably are better, but it takes alot of time.  S mesh statics hold decent tension and last a long time with zero upkeep, right now, thats where I will stay.

This.

 I have nothing bad to say about  roller frames, but don't know if we will ever go back.

Murphy37

[jsheridan]

You will discover that the number is not as important as a standard and consistency to it if you are going to ignore the number and let it slide then just stay with statics.

Those numbers are actually very important and are specific to different types of mesh one can use. Check with the manufacturer and you'll find that a single mesh count can have 3 different tension levels based on how the end user stretches the mesh.


HOLY CRAP! I just checked that link and they want 400 bucks the 2E meter..  F that noise!

Now I remember why I never bought anything from them.. their prices are ridiculous.

Keep our money local and find the suppliers in your area. You'd be surprised what kind of deals can be had when you do business with a handshake rather than a browser window.


Hey lrsbranding.. send me a PM and let me know where you are, I'll see if we can get a rep in your area to stop by and give you some stretching tips. I bet it's something very simple in your technique that is giving you troubles.

[jsheridan]

14 years of M3 use here, for the last 4 I switched to S mesh Statics, doubt I would ever go back to rollers.  However, if you retension and stay on top of rollers they probably are better, but it takes alot of time.  S mesh statics hold decent tension and last a long time with zero upkeep, right now, thats where I will stay.

This.

 I have nothing bad to say about  roller frames, but don't know if we will ever go back.

Murphy37

mmmmm.... this coolaid tastes SOOOO GOODD.. ahhhh.. 

I love the part about if we keep up with the tension, they'll be better, but who has time for that!

[dirkdiggler]

  love that!

[Underbase37]

Lol......I like Kool Aid.....IMO I drank the roller Kool Aid for a long time, its very good, I'm just drinking a different flavor now.

Murphy37

[mooseman]

There must be one heck of a learning curve for success with Newman Frames. I have used them for years and to this day I'm scared to go over 25 Nm even with Newman Mesh. If I have 20 usable screens I've popped 10 to get there. I have read and reread, watched the stretching videos numerous times and the only thing I can think of going wrong is the alignment clips are damaging the mesh and creating a weak spot. I just received some mesh panels so hopefully that will help. I understand the theory of screen tension and agree that retensionable screens are better, but dang they create a lot of tension. I don't know if I'd get MZX again unless you have side clamps. To me they seem to have a lot of flex when mounted by the square bar.

I have a pretty good idea of what your issues may be. primarily look at the edges of the end caps where they plug into the channel of the roller tube. ON ALL my MZX frames there was a mis-match and the end cap offered a sharp edged corner to the mesh. If you run your finger down the channel and it hits /feels anything at all as you exit the channel over the end cap you have  problem.
Secondly I would guess you are possibly not softening the corners correctly.
Lastly there are definite warning signs as you draw up the mesh initially especially if I can get you to ID them I can save you a bunch of mesh and money in the cus jar.
Easier to talk live send a PM if you are interested.
 mooseman

[mooseman]

You will discover that the number is not as important as a standard and consistency to it if you are going to ignore the number and let it slide then just stay with statics.

Those numbers are actually very important and are specific to different types of mesh one can use. Check with the manufacturer and you'll find that a single mesh count can have 3 different tension levels based on how the end user stretches the mesh.

Yes the numbers are important and it should be obtained from the mesh mfg BUT the point is even if you are say 10% short of mfgr suggested value  the idea is to hold consistency in the screen condition and not let it slide to the "soft side"
mooseman

[jsheridan]

  the idea is to hold consistency in the screen condition and not let it slide to the "soft side"

Yep!
no matter the brand or kind of mesh one uses, being able to hold it at a specific level is the entire basis of the retensionable frame.

[bimmridder]

I won't say what method I use, but I strongly believe good, consistent tensions aids in faster set ups. And good screens are just one part of a bigger system.

[Screen Dan]

6 or 7 years ago when  my shop went to roller frames I was only the lead printer.  So my transitional viewpoint is tainted by that fact, though I feel that gives me the best perspective.  Now I manage the screen department so I don't have the hands on that I used to.  But, here's what I noticed.

Aside from clamping being a little more wonky than flat static frames (screw those adapters):

More consistent registration.  Period.  Even though their retension schedule was far less frequent than the one I've instituted I noticed I got less "weird screens" that would work fine once replaced.  I imagine this is a result of reduced elongation from getting closer to "work hardened" (even though that's technically impossible with retensionable roller frames).  Instead of my (theoretical) 150/48 being stretched at 22n/cm² and relaxing to 14-18n/cm² I would get a screen closer to 20-21n/cm².  That underbase sets the tone for how easy everything will be afterwards...for the most part.  If you get a bitchin smooth laydown you will have far fewer problems after that.  Then once you get that bitchin laydown (assuming you are flashing responsibly, chasing the elusive and technically impossible "gel") everything lays on top of that so much easier.  Reduced pressure, less off-contact, faster stroke...everything you are looking for.  After the underbase you've got the colors that don't continue to elongate while sitting on the rack waiting to be printed.  Reduced pressure requirements from the bitchin underbase and consistent tension also reduce elongation from too much pressure and crazy off-contact.  Registration is easier and more consistent all around.  The screens all get beaten on less via the reduced pressure and off-contact to provide "virtual tension," stay more stable--regardless of being retensioned or not, and especially when retensioned.

Since taking control of the screen department I've increased our retensioning requirements to four times more frequent (2 months to 2 weeks...and if there are huge runs on the presses it can be even more frequent than that).  That has made it easier for operators that don't have quite the same passion for the job as I had to setup and reproduce prints--even some of our most difficult--much easier.  As I've said before, these kids in the shop these days don't know the joys of squeezing white through a 180 with thick thread and poor tensioned static frame at 5am on on a January morning in New England...

I've got some killer screen techs who are awesome at stretching raw mesh (which I get for a song, given my volume)...so I won't enter into the raw mesh vs panels debate. 

But, if you are at a level where this is something you can afford and you have the right people in place to maintain the system (and it needs non-stop vigilant maintenance to succeed) then I say do it.  I'd never ever ever go back to statics.  We can stretch 6-12 (depending on the tech and the mesh) an hour...as opposed to 2 statics an hour with the old pneumatic clamp table...and that guy was good, even if the clamps weren't.

You can practice all the stretch voodoo you want to relax your mesh.  I've found that, ultimately, they all result in the same results in the life of the screen...but that is surely different for shops with different levels of volume.  I simply can't afford to put a screen away for a day with a cinderblock on it.  By time it relaxes down it'll already be off press and retensioned (all fresh screens get retensioned immediately in reclaim...then every two weeks thereafter).

Your Milage May Vary, this is just my humble opinion from my shop's perspective...but, I think retensionable frames are awesome and ease setup and repeatability so much that I can justify the extra labor require to maintain my fleet of screens.