Mesh quality

[Maxie]

There has been a lot written lately about Murakami S mesh.    I like that fact that the tension doesn't drop fast.
Do any of you have experience with other manufacturers mesh?
Saati, etc?
Is there really a big difference between the quality meshes on the market?

[Screen Dan]

I have used Murakami, Sefar, Newman, Saati, etc...and to be honest I have not found any real quality issues that weren't directly attributable to the parameters of the mesh.  Things like mesh count, thread diameter, heat treatment/pressing, color, weave type, etc.

It seems counter-intuitive to me that there wouldn't be obvious winners and losers as far as quality goes...or maybe I just haven't come across any crap off-brand mesh.  But, like I said, I've never really noticed anything as far as elongation, tension or durability that didn't correlate directly to the specific parameters of the mesh.

...maybe I'm just simple...

[sqslabs]

S-Mesh is thin thread mesh which in my experience provides much better printability across the board due to its much larger open area between threads.  On that front, its literally night and day from any other mesh I've used, and for most mesh counts I won't be going back to standard mesh.  Ever.

The tradeoff is fragility, and if not handled correctly can really become an issue pretty fast.  My shop has been on a bit of a screen popping spree recently, and I'm here today (on my day off) stretching screens to catch back up. But I'd rather do that than go back to standard mesh, which speaks of how much of a difference we've seen in our prints and production using S-Mesh. I consider it to be in a league of its own.

[Maxie]

I searched on the www, this is what I found
NBC 150/48 50% open
Saati 158/64 32
Newman 166/?  39
Murakami 150/48 51
Sur Lock 150/64 ?

I couldn't find a Saati mesh similar to the Murakami S mesh.

[mimosatexas]

S-mesh is amazing and it affects the quality and ease of printing on every single print on every single shirt and I would not go back.  That said, I only use a few mesh counts and they are static frames, so others might see more or less improvement over whatever they are currently using and with rollers there are a few additional mesh counts available than with the statics.  White plastisol and waterbased printing is where it really makes all the difference.  180S is amazing for underbasing and for larger area p/f/p white prints.  135S works great with glitters.  225S is basically the only mesh I use anymore for waterbased prints and for top whites.  The only non-S-mesh I still use is 110 when I need a nice thick print, which I coat 2/2 or more with thicker emulsions, or 280 for more plastisol colors on top of a base.  If they made a 280ish S mesh static I would use it instead.  I have a handful of 300S statics, but they just don't work as well for top colors in my opinion.

[Maxie]

What is your Newton on initial stretch on a 180 using statics and S mesh?
What does it drop to after use?

[mimosatexas]

I don't have a meter, but I know others have tested, and they settle at or above 20N typically I believe.

[Northland]

S-mesh is amazing and it affects the quality and ease of printing on every single print on every single shirt and I would not go back.  That said, I only use a few mesh counts and they are static frames, so others might see more or less improvement over whatever they are currently using and with rollers................ 180S is amazing for underbasing and for larger area p/f/p white prints. 

I agree.... I've been meaning to post a thread about 180S statics. I think I could do about 90% of my jobs with them.
180S p/f/p works great on darks, nice soft hand and good opacity.
On lighter garments, it's one hit (no dry stroke needed).

My 180S screens came in at 19n/cm and have stayed there.

[Rockers]

I searched on the www, this is what I found
NBC 150/48 50% open
Saati 158/64 32
Newman 166/?  39
Murakami 150/48 51
Sur Lock 150/64 ?

I couldn't find a Saati mesh similar to the Murakami S mesh.

That`s because there probably is none.  The NBC mesh which is as well manufactured here in Japan is almost identically to Murakami S mesh. In almost all aspects. If you need a list with recommended tension levels for the NBC mesh I have one here, oh and it`s cheaper too.

[ScreenPrinter123]

S-mesh is amazing and it affects the quality and ease of printing on every single print on every single shirt and I would not go back.  That said, I only use a few mesh counts and they are static frames, so others might see more or less improvement over whatever they are currently using and with rollers................ 180S is amazing for underbasing and for larger area p/f/p white prints. 

I agree.... I've been meaning to post a thread about 180S statics. I think I could do about 90% of my jobs with them.
180S p/f/p works great on darks, nice soft hand and good opacity.
On lighter garments, it's one hit (no dry stroke needed).

My 180S screens came in at 19n/cm and have stayed there.

180S can do a good job if hand is a concern but if 100% opacity is more important than hand we have found that we have to drop down to a 150S for p/f/p.  We use S Mesh on newman mzx rollers so we keep them mid to upper 20s which after a few retensions they will stay in that range until you pop one.

[mimosatexas]

I can get 100% white on dark using 180S or 225S with p/f/p.  The 225S just requires a clearing stroke, but the final hand is better :shrug:  I basically use those interchangeably based on whether I am in a rush or not.  For other light on darks I underbase with 180S or 225S, again interchangeably based on whether I want to do a clearing/flattening stroke, then do top colors with the 280 mesh.  You choice of white will be a big factor here.  Most of the whites I have tested would not do this, but One Stroke has a few that will and I use Triangle Excel as my go to white most of the time.  Legacy white does a pretty decent job as well. 

[ScreenPrinter123]

In our shop one stroke on two 180s screens is not as opaque as using a lower mesh.  That is typically at mid to high 20s psi and 15-20" per second.  It could be that we use cheap shirts and need better mat down

[mimosatexas]

There are lots of factors that could cause the difference.  I know I see better results when the ink is warmed and mixed, when the pallets are warm, when I use triple duro vs standard squeegees, when I go faster and lighter vs slow and hard, etc.

[Maxie]

When you use a 180 S and pop what squeegees are you using?

[dirkdiggler]

S mesh here all the way, would never go back.  Its that good.