DCS vs TIFF in Illustrator???

[starchild]

We go from PhotoShop to Illustrator just so that we can use Illustrator's print interface to output our files. To do so, we save the file as a DCS, I did this because I was told by the industry to do it like that.

Tonite Gilligan was having some issues with DCS and asked me about it.. I thought I'd share because I usually never need to.. I usually suck knowledge from you guys like a leech.

In order to get a DCS file into Illustrator it has to be placed using the link option and a linked file cannot be edited in Illustrator so I'm offering a workaround..

A Tiff file has the ability to contain channels, layers and maintain transparency so lets use a Tiff instead.

Step A-
After your image is sep'd and ready to be saved- (to be output in Illi)  leave the original RGB channels you used to do the sep in the channels- you need it for it's color profile info to create a Tiff. Heck you can even leave the shirt color channel (We can use this in Illustrator to preview our design later)- When you save the file as a tiff also remember to check the spot color checkbox in the first dialog and include transparency in the second dialog. The sep is now saved as a Tiff.

Step B-
Now in illustrator create a new document-under Color Mode choose RGB (because thats how we sep'd and saved the tiff file)
Go to your swatches panel and select all unused colors and delete them.

Step C-
Ok lets get the Tiff- Go to File-Place and uncheck the link checkbox in the pop up dialog and select the Tiff.

Step D-
Dang.. We get the same dark, off color looking image we usually get when we open our seps in Illi. (Illustrator has a rendering problem) WRONG!!
Looking in the top left corner of Illustrator it says Multiple Images- That's right we've got all our channels available for editing because the image is embedded, this happened when we unchecked the link option when we placed the Tiff. In the Swatches Panel our assigned spot colors came in too because we checked spot colors when we saved the Tiff out of PhotoShop. In the Layers Panel we have a layer named Layer 1 with the option to drill down using the arrow- The first level will have the named Tiff file and the second level our sep'd channels and, and our shirt color channel. At the bottom of the list will be a channel named Original (That's our RGB channels-Color Profile we used to save the Tiff. (Yes but it's still dark and funky lookin buddy!!)

Step E-
LET THE FUN BEGIN!! Illustrator displays it's layers like PhotoShop- From bottom to top, so we have some moving around to do. Remember this file is embedded so meat ball the Layer1 (select) and go to Object - Ungroup (Shift + Ctrl + G) all channels become separate entities. Now drag your shirt color channel to the bottom of the stack, then your underbase above the shirt color the all other colors dark to light- basically rearrange the channels bottom to top. Hint if you do it in PhotoShop channels before you save to Tiff you won't have to do it now.  (Still looks shitty homes!!)

Step F-
The reason why Illustrator displays our original seps this off color way is because Illustrator Blend Mode is set to Multiply by Default.. With the Appearance Panel open, meatball (select) each of your channels in your Layers Panel, and click on Opacity in the Appearance Panel and change it's Blend Mode from Multiply to Normal. Now your Seps looks exactly like it does in PhotoShop. What's more if you've got that beautiful plugin called Phantasm you can use the curves, levels, hue/saturation to continue fine tuning your seps. InkQuest will give you ink mixers the missing info (image size, percentage of the image is what color) to mix the correct amount of ink.
You can also swap out the shirt colors channel for different previews. Oh yeah remember to delete the RGB (Original) you don't need it.

I hope this is of help to someone, at the very least I hope Gilligan has some clarity.

[Gilligan]

Awesome, thanks!

[blue moon]

hmmm, I just drag and drop the psd file from bridge and set transparency to "Isolate Blending". This will show the image in the illustrator.
To make sure you are looking at the seps rather than the layers, trun off all the eyeballs for the layers before saving the psd file and it will show the channels.

'not sure what the issue is, but I've never had to use the DCS files, regular drag and drop has always worked for me. . .

pierre

[Sbrem]

I learned the DCS method about 20 years ago, hard habit to break, even though I know others...

Steve

[Gilligan]

The problem I am/was having is that it is a multi-channel file in PS.

When placed into Illy I end up with standard cmyk colors when I go into Accurip.  Which of course are turned off.

Experimenting with some other methods right now.  But multi-channel doesn't go into TIFF.

[lemorris]

hmmm, I just drag and drop the psd file from bridge and set transparency to "Isolate Blending". This will show the image in the illustrator.
To make sure you are looking at the seps rather than the layers, trun off all the eyeballs for the layers before saving the psd file and it will show the channels.

'not sure what the issue is, but I've never had to use the DCS files, regular drag and drop has always worked for me. . .

pierre

ummmm...whaaa?

can you post a sample of the art and the print....this sounds revolutionary

[blue moon]

hmmm, I just drag and drop the psd file from bridge and set transparency to "Isolate Blending". This will show the image in the illustrator.
To make sure you are looking at the seps rather than the layers, trun off all the eyeballs for the layers before saving the psd file and it will show the channels.

'not sure what the issue is, but I've never had to use the DCS files, regular drag and drop has always worked for me. . .

pierre

ummmm...whaaa?

can you post a sample of the art and the print....this sounds revolutionary

every print we do that has art separated in photoshop is done this way. All this is accomplishing is being able to print a psd file out of Illustrator without needing a DCS compatible .eps.
I have a feeling that you think I'm talking about separations. . .

pierre

[Dottonedan]

Starchild,


I applaud you for your find and sharing it with us. It's another method that gets a task done. Seems there are many, but some are more feasible to use than others depending on your needs. I think this is an awesome method to look into for other more complex raster sepping methods right in Illustrator, similar to what Tom Knight is doing with Corel.

Maybe Pierre doesn't use it for the abilities that some shops use it for, but the main reason for getting it into a vector program in past years was to add vector elements such as small type to the raster image.  It's cleaner.   Today, because of the change adobe made to photoshop taking out our halftone options, it's feasible to use vector programs to print from to your RIP.


Really tho, it was important back in the day, to do the clean or sharp edged elements in a vector program because back in the day, file size was a concern. Many used the old rule from Abobe that said your raster art needed to be 1.5-2 times the line screen you intended to print. So many people printing a 55lpi used raster files that were 110 rez. This of course produced very rough edged elements of type not suitable for print, thus the need for placing into a vector program and printing from there adding in type and elements that needed to be clean. Today, file size is not an issue so we can easily use photoshop for small type and vector elements.


Me, I never use actual vector elements into photoshop dropped in as live vector elements although that seems to be uncharted territory for me that I should learn about, since I got a job the other day that made use of vector elements placed into psd for mock ups....but I didn't know what to do with it to get the high rez out of it without opening each element. It became to time intensive to re-engineer the file. I should look into that tho, since it can lead to other more useful features.


Some of these methods do go nuts on your file (when keeping the RGB or CMYK elements in there. It becomes a pain to have to have these extra seps in your ripped file and you have to delete them or turn them off.


.tiff files can be VERY large compared to other methods. Compare your multi channel tiff file size with a psd file or even DCS2 eps file.  Ripping the TIFF file can be a task for some rips.

[lemorris]

oh...ok....it's just kinda revolutionary then.



Thanks

[Gilligan]

FYI, my problem was the channels were named the "reserved" names, so they didn't get treated as spot colors in illy.  Renaming fixed that.

[starchild]

I'm glad I posted this because I've discovered that a psd will work fine for this (original channels from photoshop must be retained for color mode to be identified by Illustrator).

If you drag and drop into illustrator, the image still needs to be embedded if you want to continue working on the channels in Illustrator. Applying Isolate Blending on the parent group will filter down (Normal- Blend Mode) to it's children, however Knockout Group also needed to be checked to drill down through the transparency of each channel stacked on top each other.

[Sbrem]

I'm glad I posted this because I've discovered that a psd will work fine for this (original channels from photoshop must be retained for color mode to be identified by Illustrator).

If you drag and drop into illustrator, the image still needs to be embedded if you want to continue working on the channels in Illustrator. Applying Isolate Blending on the parent group will filter down (Normal- Blend Mode) to it's children, however Knockout Group also needed to be checked to drill down through the transparency of each channel stacked on top each other.

So, why would I continue working on the channels in Illustrator, as opposed to having the PS file open at the same time and making adjustments there, and saving them so it updates in Illustrator? And, what exactly can be done to the channels in Illy? That's a new wrinkle for me...

Steve

[starchild]

So, why would I continue working on the channels in Illustrator, as opposed to having the PS file open at the same time and making adjustments there, and saving them so it updates in Illustrator? And, what exactly can be done to the channels in Illy? That's a new wrinkle for me...

Steve

When you embed the image it breaks the link so no working back and forth..

[3Deep]

Pretty good topic here I know I've had to do some funky stuff to do seps and I want even much try to explain my process as it is so far off the beaten path.

darryl

[blue moon]

So, why would I continue working on the channels in Illustrator, as opposed to having the PS file open at the same time and making adjustments there, and saving them so it updates in Illustrator? And, what exactly can be done to the channels in Illy? That's a new wrinkle for me...

Steve

When you embed the image it breaks the link so no working back and forth..

drag and drop for us just links to it. Any editing is done in photoshop and Illustrator automatically pops and update confirmation box.

pierre